Caches

We have a large number of them in multiple locations. Near airports I frequent, work, etc. I've got several in plain site if someone bothered to look.
Caches do not necessarily get buried either. fake rocks, cinder bricks in a new building (some forethought needs to go into that one, don't want it somewhere they will be drilling a hole later), old mines, inside the conduit power access hole in large billboards, fake tree limbs, and one of my favorites, fake tree stumps in man made lakes that drain during the winter. The only limitation to that is your imagination, engineering, and artistic/camouflaging skills.
If it's obvious and deserted for any length of time in the day, it's a good candidate in my eyes. I make the assumption that we will lose 1/3 of them to accidental discovery though it's been more like one out of a hundred.

shallow burying a bug out bag in your yard is high on my list. Raised garden beds work great for that if your in a non seismic area.

As for what goes in them, food, medical supplies, firearms, ammo, tools, and anything else you need for shtf events.

Warning, This will be very long.

This is what I captured from that other site we never mention again The internal site links are not going to work but the external should.

I still like graveyards, I know some don't. Our catches include locations on our primary location (replacement BOB, a complete camping caches, etc.) our rally points, and all along our primary and secondary routes to our retreat location (the farm). By along the way I mean replenish caches every mile, a camp cache every five miles. The primary location of these are utility and railroad right of ways which will not likely be subject to new building and will be our walking routes if we have to hike. (not hiking directly on the right of way but along side) These right of ways have very good "signposts" so if you know where to look they are easy to locate. As an example there may be a nail over a specific washer, driven into a utility pole. The utility pole would be the starting point for a specific and pre-establish pace off maybe identified by the ID "washer", much in the way fending machine operators use nail polish on "feed quarters".

Storing caches along the way to your BOL (http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/survival-skills/24564-storing-caches-along-way-your-bol.html)

loshali 02-28-2012 15:37
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Storing caches along the way to your BOL

I'm listening to the audiobook version of Patriots and I'm re-listening to one part where one member of 'the group' wished he'd thought to leave caches along the way to the retreat. Which, of course, got me to thinking about my own situation. Should things get really tense where I am, I do have a location about an hour's drive away, and they will be expecting me. I make my preps there as well as here. But on foot, that's going to be a three day hike, minimium. Most likely more than 1-2 weeks, if I go the back roads, a wiser route. So, caches along the way would be a pretty good idea for me.

So, what is a good location for survival caches? Public property? Private? Wooded areas would probably be the best, I guess. I dont know anyone well enough, in between my location and the BOL, to trust them to hold a cache for me.

Also in the book, as an afterthought he put a pair of boots in the cache. By the time he'd gotten to it several months later (he had hundreds of miles to go to get back home) his boots were held together with duct tape. Not a bad idea to put shoes of some sort in a cache.

And, need a way to be able to dig it out, should my gear get stolen before I get to the cache location.

Suggestions?

Loshali

Missasip 02-28-2012 16:09
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Good thread. We discussed before, but always a good one.

I've tried it several ways. The posthole digger way can come back to bite you. The ground can have such a suction on it, you end up having a big dig. I have some buried now and they are one foot down. Nearby I have a small shovel tacked to a tree and camo'd. I can find it, someone else could too, but not know what to do with it. They have the short handle (2-3 ft) and plastic/metal grip on the end. I lucked into them at a salvage center for $2.50 ea. Bought 5 of them. They have been holding up quite well. Been 4 yrs. No one has found them yet. Can't be seen unless you walk up to them. They are in spots that traditionally folks don't go in or log around. Lets just say boggy and thick....

Jimmy

Oh have two heavy hacksaw blades taped to each one also. LOTS of spray paint on them....

Ashlar 02-28-2012 17:54
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The fellow who runs the youtube channel "AnalyticalSurvival" did some videos on this topic you might want to check out.

WOODYZ 02-28-2012 18:41
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lots on here use search
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...rep-items.html


redneckidokie 02-29-2012 05:04
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My experiance has been mixed. What was remote, deep woods fifteen years ago, no longer are.
I have some still out there from way back then, while others were lost to the bull dozer and housing developments. Newer ones remain untouched so far.
It is a risky business. If you can't afford to lose, don't bury it. LOL

Ceorlmann 02-29-2012 07:48
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2 Attachment(s)
Caches are a chancy business. There's no getting around that. As was said before, "If you can't afford to lose, don't bury it. (redneckidokie)" At the same time: if you can't afford to lose it, but can't haul it with you if your home can no longer be defended, it's still a loss.

What you can do, if applicable, is lower the chances of someone stumbling upon it (intentionally or not; far more likely the latter), as well as lowering the possibilities of mother nature doing some meddling of her own.

I have no knowledge of burying anything cache-wise in any area of populace because I have never, and still don't intend to bury anything where other people pass by very often.

Wooded areas and other "wild"/"brush" areas are good as long as you know the territory. Otherwise, once mother nature goes through the seasons, you may very well forget where exactly you buried that extra pair of boots/shoes because not only did mother nature erode the disturbed dirt, but covered it in leaves, let plants grow, etc. Wooded areas are also only as good as they are left alone. I fully concur with redneckidokie that development is simply gutting our wooded areas that 20-25 years ago would've been just fine for cache or even actual BOL locations. I chose my BOL/primary cache location because to develop anything around its area is to make a project too costly and too long for any sort of tolerance in our current economic state.

A proper cache burial requires effective use of cover and concealment (not just one or the other) to keep it from the prying eyes of fellow humans and possibly humans with metal detectors (of course if you bury nothing that's metal in non-metal containers, then you're probably home free), and maybe even further blocking of access from wildlife like deer, and especially hogs. This may mean hanging food items in particular off of tree branches, beyond the reach of the animals. Just remember this though: the harder you make it for other people and animals to get to your stuff; the harder it'll be for you to get to your stuff too. If you need to get to your stuff in a hurry, this obviously puts you in an undesirable situation, possibly even a fatal one if time is of the absolute essence.

The two pictures below are the "finished" products of my primary cache in the sense of proper cover and concealment.

Next up should be protecting your stuff. Mother Nature ruining your cache supplies is arguably the most plausible, and common of problems among us all. MN (Mother Nature) is the reason why I check my cache/BOL whenever I can (usually once a week or more, sometimes once every 2-3), and constant checking raised two separate alarms for me: one was where my cache almost got discovered, and the other instance was a few weeks ago when I found out that MN's weather had pried open one of my sealed boxes and I ended up with more than 100 rounds of bad ammo. I long since replenished my loss for the ammo. My constant checking for sure saved me from losing more ammo than I already did. As for the folks who almost found my BOL, they haven't been seen again.
So, what to do to protect your stuff... If the container is advertised to be "waterproof" or water resistant: TEST IT! I cannot stress that point enough! It would be a definite shame and loss to go through the trouble of burying a lot of stuff only to have MN ruin it. I take one tissue for each container, and leave the tissue in each box and bury them, and let them sit for at least a week or more, depending on the consistency of bad weather. If the tissue is perfectly dry, then the container's seal is certainly acceptable. I do the same test on Aloksak bags. Aloksak bags have been tested, and approved for use by the US Navy Experimental Diving Team. These bags were meant to be exposed to water, even fully submerged for a good while. The best combo you can have is a well-sealed container containing your stuff which is individually protected or protected as a group by an Aloksak bag or two. To prevent moisture from coming about via different temperatures and ruining your stuff from within: desiccants are a necessity.

Other things regarding cache locations:

I personally prefer locations that are definitely off the trail, but not so off trail that you'll get lost looking for them. Combine that with not-so-easy access and plenty of shadows, and I'd say you have a pretty good idea of where to start building the cache.

Also: don't end up relying solely on one cache if you have to bug out. There's ALWAYS the chance that someone could stumble upon it like I said earlier (part of the reason why I check mine constantly). There's also the chance that it may not be safe to stop at your cache location and replenish your supplies. It may be safer to move on to the next one, depending on how SHTF. Something we learned from the hajis we fought in Iraq was this: they didn't rely on one weapons cache per city/town/village. They relied on several per street (literally). This meant that while we would occasionally find a cache of weapons and dispose of them, they could keep fighting because chances were really good that we didn't find all of their weapons caches. Basically, there really is method to their madness.


That's all I've got off the top of my head. If more stuff comes up, I'll mention it.
Caching Prep Items (http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/emergency-preparedness/23135-caching-prep-items.html)

AlabamaDan 12-27-2011 13:27
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Caching Prep Items

Now that I've been geocaching for about a year now, I realize how easy it is to return to any small site and that would make it easy to cache items in route to a BOL or at the BOL. I see how I could now bury some items and be able to find them again easily with a GPS. I know people talk about burying things like guns, ammo and such. Is it just talk or do people really do these things? What do you cache and what are you plans for them?

I guess at the BOL burying items makes sense to prevent theft, but makes it tough to rotate inventory. Who has the money to buy guns and ammo to just bury and never use? What about burying money?

Sorta makes me think about pirates and buried treasure.

redneckidokie 12-27-2011 14:21
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Trust me Dan, there is a ton of stuff buried out there. During the Obuma scare of 08/09 when all the guns and ammo in the country disappeared so did the large diameter PVC pipe. It is still scarce around here, especially the screw on caps.
At every gun show I visit I see bunches of folks talking and looking for cheap "Out house Guns", to squirrel away.
If you don't have extra, maybe you should look at that hole in your plan.

loshali 12-27-2011 14:23
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Will a GPS work if the grid goes down?

Loshali

AlabamaDan 12-27-2011 14:44
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I think a GPS will work with the grid down. Satalites use solar energy to power themselves and I don't think they're tied to earthbound facilities, but I could be wrong.

loshali 12-27-2011 14:57
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AlabamaDan (Post 321709)
I think a GPS will work with the grid down. Satalites use solar energy to power themselves and I don't think they're tied to earthbound facilities, but I could be wrong.
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Hmm, thats good info to know there, Handsome...

Still.. I think a good ole 'X-marks-the-spot' map wouldnt hurt...

Loshali

Besttracker 12-27-2011 15:03
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by redneckidokie (Post 321700)
Trust me Dan, there is a ton of stuff buried out there. During the Obuma scare of 08/09 when all the guns and ammo in the country disappeared so did the large diameter PVC pipe. It is still scarce around here, especially the screw on caps.
At every gun show I visit I see bunches of folks talking and looking for cheap "Out house Guns", to squirrel away.
If you don't have extra, maybe you should look at that hole in your plan.
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Nothing like a junkyard to cache things away in . Plays heck with a metal detector & look out for those Pitbulls .

AlabamaDan 12-27-2011 15:22
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Found a couple of interesting older threads:
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...ing-cache.html

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...ury-not-3.html


Cajunlady 12-27-2011 18:26
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Here's another interesting older thread.


www.survivaltopics.com/forums...he-things.html


Here's another great older thread with great info on materials to use or not use putting a cache together. The pics are gone but it has lots of details on much.


www.survivaltopics.com/forums...ure-heavy.html


Finding places to cache things... (http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/emergency-preparedness/4160-finding-places-cache-things.html)

cowgirlup 10-29-2009 15:18
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Finding places to cache things...

I've been thinking of putting some cached items around just in case of emergency. However, If I bury it and the emergency happens during one of the 6 months the ground is frozen then that is not very helpful.

I did come across this nice spot. I can fit inside and if I dug it out a little it would be kind of comfortable. Also I could remove a flat rock that is in there and put the cache under it, replace the rock and it should be easy to get to in winter.

You can't see the opening on 3 sides of the rock and there are several others that look just like it from the non opening side.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...T/DSC08377.jpg


This is the inside...with evidence of a previous resident. Anybody wanna play "Name that scat?"

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...T/DSC08378.jpg


pocomoonskyeyes 10-29-2009 15:27
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Add to that hollow logs, Abandoned Owl's nests,and some others are also good candidates.

snowshoe67 10-29-2009 21:41
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Rock

Cowgirlup , I :confused: about the Cracks in the stone. COLD,Wet, in the cracks,freezes :eek: seen it happen. what do you think?

cowgirlup 10-29-2009 21:44
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Some of the rocks out there do have some larger cracks that are slowly breaking up the rock. That one is in pretty good shape...

snowshoe67 10-29-2009 21:47
________________________________________oh great just asking Miss Moderator!!

LaRemnant 10-29-2009 21:57
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You can even purchase a 5 gallon bucket, and bury it... be careful animals don't dig it up though!

I've read that if your property is ever searched for any reason with a metal detector, some people have buried nuts and bolts and useless old metal tools as decoys to dissuade any government agent from continuing their search. A lot of money goes into doing that, and after digging up 4 dead ends, they will most likely stop.

At that time, it would be good and well deserved to laugh at them openly, and very loudly while pointing your finger at them. It would be even better to have a lot of missing teeth too for the added effect.

cowgirlup 10-29-2009 22:07
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It would be quite a project to dig a hole big enough for a 5 gallon bucket here due to all the rocks. Although if I put the effort into it I could situate it so I only had to open the lid to get my stuff out.

Our land and possibly our basement was part of a slaughter house a long time ago. At one point it had hydro power and there are all kinds of metal things/old parts in the yard. I had thought about borrowing a metal detector and seeing what I could find. So far just in working in the yard I've found odd scraps and bullet casings. Alpine's thred about the dump motivated me to dig at the side of the house where there are broken dishes and stuff in the dirt. I found more metal pieces, an old medicine and ink bottle and a glass canning jar lid.

Anyone who comes here looking for a stash will be digging up he whole yard in frustration!!!

kevin 10-29-2009 23:26
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what are the main reasons someone would want to bury a cache? if your buggin in; then aren there more convenient places for stuff? and if your buggin out; then lot of good that buried stuffs gonna do you.

cowgirlup 10-30-2009 03:27
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I'm thinking worst case scenario like I'm forced from the house and don't have time to grab much. Then a small cache with a knife, firesteel, space blanket a small container and some water purifier tabs would be handy to be able to get to.

Not the most likely scenario as i plan to bug in and even if I had to leave the house in a hurry I would hope to have time to grab my car bag. I try to run all types of events through my brain to see what I would do.

stairman 10-30-2009 05:10
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IMO those are stress cracks and not fine stone artisan fittings. As for stashing stuff I havent outside of the home or trucks. My luck Id have a bucket of mud and a bunch of rusted gear. Wonder how long it takes for a firesteel to corode to worthlessness?

LaRemnant 10-30-2009 06:12
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kevin (Post 59710)
what are the main reasons someone would want to bury a cache? if your buggin in; then aren there more convenient places for stuff? and if your buggin out; then lot of good that buried stuffs gonna do you.
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Generally, geocaching on your own land is a decent idea (especially for the paranoid or overly prepared types) in case for whatever reason you are forced from your home and have a large enough property or are situated near/next to a forest of some kind... you can easily retrieve supplies in case you have to urgently leave with nothing but the clothes on your back... you could make it to one of your caches and equip yourself with a possible weapon (if you can afford to store it let alone learn how to do it properly!), tools and/or extra clothes and a pack for instance. The possibilities are endless.

Another good use a cache would come into play, is say you chose a particular rugged territory as your bug out location... this could possibly be public land, deep in the mountains for instance, if you don't have the good fortune actually of owning a second inconspicuous/secluded wilderness cabin residence, is to put stuff there ahead of time, in case you ever find yourself fleeing from government agents (for WHATEVER unConstitutional reasons), a natural disaster, you name it...

You could even plot a course if you knew the lay of the land well, and preposition caches of food stuffs that keep well, gear, the whole nine yards 3 days hike from each other to keep you going per se, or at least make your forced hike that much easier to handle. You would put these out there and mark the coordinates (or whatever way you could memorize where it is without having to mark your map with big red X's) and have the peace of mind knowing that you at least have a little insurance if you ever was faced with the scenario of having to flee your homestead.

Doing it now and having the time to do it while things still seem peaceful sure as heck beats having to lug it all out there at one time. It's just good, supplemental insurance.

crashdive123 10-30-2009 07:22
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Because of the winter weather and the rocky ground you may want to consider above ground caches. If prying eyes and security aren't concerns, then a few items strategically placed in trees in suitable containers might work for you.

cowgirlup 10-30-2009 09:23
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by stairman (Post 59753)
IMO those are stress cracks and not fine stone artisan fittings. As for stashing stuff I havent outside of the home or trucks. My luck Id have a bucket of mud and a bunch of rusted gear. Wonder how long it takes for a firesteel to corode to worthlessness?
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I figure it would be OK as long as you seal it up right. Wrap the knife in some oilcloth or just oil it really good. Seal everything in a mylar bag with an oxygen absorber and a dessicant. Put it in one of those home made cache containers made of PVC pipe and seal it up to watertight.

Should last a good while I'd think.....

Unswydd 10-30-2009 13:17
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Cowgirl, I think you're on the right track. I have 2 such caches on the way to my BOL. Each are stratagicly spaced 3 miles apart should I have to hang for a while at each spot. I have used Pvc pipe to store a blanket and such items so they will stay dry and untouched. Nothing is buried as there are rock quarries near and they fit right in the landscape there. I think your ideas are right on!

NorthWet 10-30-2009 22:08
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I'm a thinkin you're on the right track as well. In my old stomping grounds, I discovered the foundation from a long since disappeared farm house (look for the apple tree!). I eventually found the associated old cistern (which was no longer capable of holding water) and cached some well protected goodies in there after checking it during the monsoonish season. This was very near the area I seeded with all sorts of edible goodies. A place of last resort, if you will, whilst living in town.

TaintRight 11-01-2009 09:22
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buried cache

Here we don't worry about frozen ground. We bury our water pipes a foot down which is all that's necessary to prevent freezing. We do however have to worry about water. So a closed, water tight vessel is necessary unless you want to risk returning to a flooded out, ruined cache.

A friend of mine buried two sealed 4' x 8" dia pvc pipes. Threaded cap on one end. Cap glued shut on the other. Inside each he stashed a spare BOB, pistol, ammo, cash and extra food. One site is on land he owns which is littered with metal debris from an old barn. It is near his "get away point". The other is a remote spot within a national forest a few miles away from the first site. I assume he marked the sites so he could return to them.

I reckon whether or not this makes sense depends on how you rank your SHTF scenarios. Personally I think it does. For an urbanite the chances of the SHTF when you have no easy access to your BOB are pretty good. You may be cut off from home, but you may be able to make your way to a remote site where you have backup stuff.

Sounds good on paper.

policemedic115 11-23-2009 19:14
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowgirlup (Post 59741)
I'm thinking worst case scenario like I'm forced from the house and don't have time to grab much. Then a small cache with a knife, firesteel, space blanket a small container and some water purifier tabs would be handy to be able to get to.

Not the most likely scenario as i plan to bug in and even if I had to leave the house in a hurry I would hope to have time to grab my car bag. I try to run all types of events through my brain to see what I would do.
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space blankets are CRAP at keeping you warm....

cowgirlup 11-23-2009 19:29
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by policemedic115 (Post 66151)
space blankets are CRAP at keeping you warm....
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Nice first post.

Yeah, the mylar ones are crap. But better than absoultely nothing for a small cache for dire emergency use.

snowshoe67 11-23-2009 19:39
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well I will agree with you Policemedic and Cowgirls I agree with you too,something is better then nothing! Hey can I use that one in a Post. LOL

cwi555 11-29-2009 09:52
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You have read correctly. Between high band passive EMF, to ground penetrating radar, there are many means to an end for a concentrated search of a given area.
Geologic consultant
Then there is LIDAR, another means of detecting ground caches,
www.fugroearthdata.com/pdfs/F...onal_11-07.pdf
To those with eyes to see, it should be noted that this system can filter out things like trees and buildings based on density. It doesn't take an einstein to figure out the significance of that. If you've disturbed the ground, it's density will have changed.

I've had a lot of people tell me I was off my rocker when I told them there was such a thing as airborne ground penetrating radar.
Foliage & Ground Penetrating Radar
However, it's been around for some time now. Did it ever occur to some of these folks to ask how it was the feds "knew" there was a buried bus under the Waco BD site?

Does anyone here actually believe the feds and powers that be haven't put all this tech together? When is the last time you witnessed an unmarked helo or plane over your area?
i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...nOct132009.jpg
That one was this last October. The image isn't what I wished it would be, but it took me some time to get my camera battery changed out. No markings at all on it.

Putting nuts and bolts around will not do the trick. Between all of the techs available, those kind of items can be discriminated in a search.

4' of 3/8" diameter zinc coated rebar driven into the ground to 1' below the surface will cause more than a little bit of consternation to anyone doing a ground search from the air. You can also pick a dummy location and punch 20 or more of them into an area < 50' x 50', it will make their systems light up like a Christmas tree. Good luck pinning down a BOL cache in a 2 mile area seeded with these.

Then you could of course hide it under their collective noses. I'll leave that to your imagination.

My opinion for what it's worth.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LaRemnant (Post 59673)
You can even purchase a 5 gallon bucket, and bury it... be careful animals don't dig it up though!

I've read that if your property is ever searched for any reason with a metal detector, some people have buried nuts and bolts and useless old metal tools as decoys to dissuade any government agent from continuing their search. A lot of money goes into doing that, and after digging up 4 dead ends, they will most likely stop.

At that time, it would be good and well deserved to laugh at them openly, and very loudly while pointing your finger at them. It would be even better to have a lot of missing teeth too for the added effect.
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Baldninja 11-30-2009 12:52
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If you are as fortunate as I, your house sits on a crawl space, which would be perfect for storing an easily accessable cache of whatever you want to store.....or multiple caches. And very few people would ever bother checking people's crawl spaces for things of use. Of course, you all will now! lol


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:18.
Last resort survival pods (picture heavy) (http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/survival-news-discussion/15492-last-resort-survival-pods-picture-heavy.html)

cwi555 12-27-2010 10:10
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Last resort survival pods (picture heavy)

No matter how good your preps are, how well trained you are, or how well your plans are laid out, the worst could happen and you find yourself separated from all preps.

Lets say SHTF when you were away from home. Your town has been declared a disaster area, and you have been temporarily detained and stripped of most of your EDC gear. What then? Where do you go? What do you do?

Our plan is several strategically placed survival pods. They can range from 4 weeks worth in PVC tubes, to a coffee can size that can cover a week of bare essentials.

Below is an example of the coffee can variant using a Folgers 3 pound plastic coffee can. (the tall one.

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...9-dsc04620.jpg
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...0-dsc04621.jpg
Two of those packages contain 7200 calories. They taste like hell, but they have the minimum calories needed to recover, and stave off starvation. Anyone who's ever went hungry for a week (which I have by design and happenstance) will recognize the value of that.

Next is a heat sheet survival blanket with 15' of duct tape wrapped around the base of the package.
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...1-dsc04622.jpg

Standard US military lensatic compass with fishing hooks and 100 feet of 20 pound test fishing line in the pack. (forgot to take the fishing line out for pic)

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...2-dsc04623.jpg

Fire steel and striker

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...4-dsc04626.jpg

Basic med kit, liquid skin, leatherman wave, bagged polar water disinfectant charter arms 38 special added.

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...7-dsc04635.jpg
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...6-dsc04634.jpg

Basic wire saw, package of trioxane, 30' of paracord, and 25 rounds of +P Winchester PDX 1 added to fill in spaces.

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...1-dsc04641.jpg

Toss a pack of deoxidizer in and seal the can using the factory lid using food grade rtv sealant.

Added to this, a small flask container duct tapped to the outside of the package.

www.survivaltopics.com/forums...2-dsc04642.jpg

I would like to have done a better job of pictures, but I don't have enough space to cover each element in the container.

Its not ideal, but it would bet the hell out of being empty handed any day of the week.

GIJeaux 12-27-2010 10:19
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I like it cwi555. Thanks for the info.
I wasn't even thinking RTV to seal it. Great idea.


Al

cwi555 12-27-2010 10:23
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Remember to use food grade RTV. Many of the RTV sealants off gas during curing, which for an engine or something like it is no problem, but when ammo, food, etc is involved, those off gases can be corrosive. The off gas for food grade is nuetral.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GIJeaux (Post 222512)
I like it cwi555. Thanks for the info.
I wasn't even thinking RTV to seal it. Great idea.


Al
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Lonewufcry 12-27-2010 10:39
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CWI thanks for the info. We have a couple of cans filled with supplies and sealed then duct tape together. The only prob i have is placement. but either way they are a great little cache to have.

Cajunlady 12-27-2010 11:22
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Muy excelente, cwi, great pics and info. Well thought out also. Basic but many bases covered as well as it should be. Thanks for sharing.

SyntaxError 12-27-2010 11:39
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Pretty good kit.

The wire saw is useless though. If the ends don't pull off, the wire heats up during use and stretches to the point of breaking.

You might get 1 complete cut with it before it fails.

Baldninja 12-27-2010 11:52
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Well, unless my house has been hit by a nuke, in which case I'd already be dead, I'd be going home in spite of whatever anyone had to say about it....and trying to stop me would result in one heck of a confrontation. I don't care how bad things may seem, I gotta get home to the dogs to turn them loose at the very least. I wouldn't leave them locked in the house to drown, starve to death or suffer some other time consuming and agonizing death. And since I'd be there anyways, may as well grab whatever gear I need as quickly as possible. Then again, on a bad day it only takes me about 15 minutes to get home while abiding by all traffic laws. If things were that bad, my work would also likely be in the same designated disaster area or whatever, and traffic laws would not be relevant. I also work on the east side of Indy and my house is in a town just east of Indy, so my most likely path of travel(assuming I need to get out of Indy as quickly as possible) would take me towards my house and past it. One short little stop would be neither out of my way or too much of a time constraint.

Ask me again in a year, though, when I've lost my job and have likely moved....may be a totally different scenario.

cwi555 12-27-2010 11:55
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That particular wire saw is good for 5 cuts as judged by my own testing. What it won't get the leatherman will. Its purpose is to shave off some time with an emergency shelter which if needed, is critical. For a long term fix you are correct, its useless; for its given purpose, it will do the job.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SyntaxError (Post 222530)
Pretty good kit.

The wire saw is useless though. If the ends don't pull off, the wire heats up during use and stretches to the point of breaking.

You might get 1 complete cut with it before it fails.
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Cajunlady 12-27-2010 13:17
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Just thought of somethng to consider adding to your pod which I believe would be beneficial. I believe you'd have room to at least add one tube of triple antibiotic ointment. JMO

cwi555 12-27-2010 13:43
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Its in the med kit.
As mentioned, I didn't have enough picture space to detail everything. The med kit contains gauze, suture subkit, 'triple antibiotic ointment', bandages, ibuprofen, aleve, alcohol pads, antiseptic wash, and other gear. The tape around it is due to it bulging and not wanting to stay shut.

Its a good thought though. I should have detailed that part better.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cajunlady (Post 222571)
Just thought of somethng to consider adding to your pod which I believe would be beneficial. I believe you'd have room to at least add one tube of triple antibiotic ointment. JMO
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Cajunlady 12-27-2010 13:48
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 222584)
Its in the med kit.
As mentioned, I didn't have enough picture space to detail everything. The med kit contains gauze, suture subkit, 'triple antibiotic ointment', bandages, ibuprofen, aleve, alcohol pads, antiseptic wash, and other gear. The tape around it is due to it bulging and not wanting to stay shut.

Its a good thought though. I should have detailed that part better.
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Well that certainly shed some light on the subject. You had me a little worried, now I feel better. Quit hiding things under your sleeve. LoL

ZenGunFighter 12-27-2010 13:53
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I'd add some contractor grade garbage bags to the outside, they have so many uses.

Solar Geek 12-27-2010 14:30
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Question for CWI

I know you work around the world on very secretive projects. Are you telling us by any chance to get ready? The reason for the questions were I QUESTIONED the gov.'s release of the "how to survive a nuclear dirty bomb" or "attack" just this month. Is there something else going on?
SG

OffTrail 12-27-2010 15:10
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Going to make one of these right away. And if it works out,I will make somemore. Thanks for the idea.

5col 12-27-2010 15:31
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The comments on the wire saw are right on. A pocket chain saw (similar idea, but with chain instead of a wire) might work better, but I've never tried one.

I think you should add some kind of water filter to your kit. It's fine to use a treatment to kill off bacteria, but you can also kill that stuff by boiling. In a SHTF situation, I'd be worried about particulate matter like radioactive ash. Coffee filters are cheap and will probably fit, but if you can get a better grade of filter in there, it's probably worth your trouble.

Here is the TC 31-29A, the Field Manual for Special Forces Caching Techniques:
TC 31-29/A U.S. ARMY SPECIAL FORCES CACHING TECHNIQUES


cwi555 12-27-2010 16:03
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Your advice on water filteration is understood. Should it be necessary, I could in fact have them.

Remember this is only one example. We have everything from Berkeys to pocket straw types, to katadyns. We also have multiple caches, the one pictured here is an example of the smallest ones we have. They are simple, to the point, and will service most needs. In an emergency the extra gauze (cotton mesh) can filter, along with burning some charcoal from hard wood.

Its not meant to be perfect, no kit that size can be, but it will cover the basic needs. Its intent is post SHTF and through some misfortune of events, you are not able to immediately get to your primary, secondary, or tertiary caches. It will keep you alive long enough to do so.

I appreciate the comments though, I could in fact add some coffee filters to the small ones like this with no real issues.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 5col (Post 222610)
The comments on the wire saw are right on. A pocket chain saw (similar idea, but with chain instead of a wire) might work better, but I've never tried one.

I think you should add some kind of water filter to your kit. It's fine to use a treatment to kill off bacteria, but you can also kill that stuff by boiling. In a SHTF situation, I'd be worried about particulate matter like radioactive ash. Coffee filters are cheap and will probably fit, but if you can get a better grade of filter in there, it's probably worth your trouble.

Here is the TC 31-29A, the Field Manual for Special Forces Caching Techniques:
TC 31-29/A U.S. ARMY SPECIAL FORCES CACHING TECHNIQUES
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cwi555 12-27-2010 16:12
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If I did have specific inside knowledge, I sure wouldn't be talking about it on an open forum. That would be a fast track to a military grade prison.
With that said, world events are reason enough to be prepared. Its a scary place out there.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Solar Geek (Post 222594)
I know you work around the world on very secretive projects. Are you telling us by any chance to get ready? The reason for the questions were I QUESTIONED the gov.'s release of the "how to survive a nuclear dirty bomb" or "attack" just this month. Is there something else going on? I am dead center Chicago and consider this question often. SG
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cwi555 12-27-2010 16:13
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Good idea. It would be nothing to bag them up like that.
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Originally Posted by ZenGunFighter (Post 222589)
I'd add some contractor grade garbage bags to the outside, they have so many uses.
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5col 12-27-2010 16:25
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This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

Where'd you get the food bars?

For a kit this small, every aspect of the kit is critical. I wonder if you could find a container more useful than this coffee can. What about an aluminum pot + lid? You could seal it with tape for burial or storage (and maybe put inside a contractor grade trash bag, as someone else suggested). Then you have a container to cook and boil water in, and you don't have to worry about it leaching chemicals into your drinking water, either.

You might also put the pistol and ammo in a zip lock bag for extra moisture protection.

And if it were my kit, I would fill every available space with instant coffee packets. A little quality of life goes a long way.

cowgirlup 12-27-2010 18:29
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Solar Geek (Post 222594)
I know you work around the world on very secretive projects. Are you telling us by any chance to get ready? The reason for the questions were I QUESTIONED the gov.'s release of the "how to survive a nuclear dirty bomb" or "attack" just this month. Is there something else going on? I am dead center Chicago and consider this question often. SG
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I would not be happy being in a large city for a long weekend. Hang in there SG! Your new place will come together and hope you will be out of there ASAP.

Oh, and if anyone ever has a credible heads up on anything I'd appreciate a PM which would be kept strictly confidential!!!!
(Insert EEK Face here)

redneckidokie 12-27-2010 19:01
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How many of these little jewels is enough? When you reach a point of saturation how are you keeping track of them? This is my worry. I have been doing some of the long PVC ones for some years, but in the past year I have been on a mission to acquire all the cheap 22's, single shot and bolt, as well as ultra cheap break action shotguns. I have been stuffing them in a manner similar to yours with a minimum of ammo and needed goods to last a few days until I can move more freely to a proper stash. I feel like Johnny Apple seed, with stuff at all degrees on the map.
In a time of need I hate to look like a crazed squirrel dashing around madly tunneling in folks yards.
Terrain changes and housing additions pop up over night. Some older hides have already succumbed to the bull dozer. Do you keep track of yours and go check on them, or hope for the best?

cwi555 12-27-2010 19:10
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Yes we do keep track of them. The places we put them tend to be unbothered though.
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Originally Posted by redneckidokie (Post 222677)
How many of these little jewels is enough? When you reach a point of saturation how are you keeping track of them? This is my worry. I have been doing some of the long PVC ones for some years, but in the past year I have been on a mission to acquire all the cheap 22's, single shot and bolt, as well as ultra cheap break action shotguns. I have been stuffing them in a manner similar to yours with a minimum of ammo and needed goods to last a few days until I can move more freely to a proper stash. I feel like Johnny Apple seed, with stuff at all degrees on the map.
In a time of need I hate to look like a crazed squirrel dashing around madly tunneling in folks yards.
Terrain changes and housing additions pop up over night. Some older hides have already succumbed to the bull dozer. Do you keep track of yours and go check on them, or hope for the best?
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cwi555 12-27-2010 19:19
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See comments in red:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 5col (Post 222621)
This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

Where'd you get the food bars? 3600 Calorie Food Bars (One case / total of 90 400-calorie meals)

For a kit this small, every aspect of the kit is critical. I wonder if you could find a container more useful than this coffee can. What about an aluminum pot + lid? We have in fact put them in pots as you mentioned. You could seal it with tape for burial or storage (and maybe put inside a contractor grade trash bag, as someone else suggested).Tape does not seal properly. After time in the ground, it will degrade and lose its adhesive. It will also leach oxygen through after dropping a deoxidizer in the can/container Then you have a container to cook and boil water in, and you don't have to worry about it leaching chemicals into your drinking water, either.

You might also put the pistol and ammo in a zip lock bag for extra moisture protection.I've experimented with that already. The enemy is not really the hydrogen, its the oxygen. Most rounds are sealed tight enough against moister but without the oxygen no oxidation can take place, which is what causes degradation of the ammo. Putting the rounds in a plastic bag seals them into the environment within the bag. Thats why the oxy absorber.I Ive experimented extensively in a laboratory setting with this, neither desiccant or deoxidizer are magic bullets, nor bags. of the solutions the deoxidizer has proven to last the longest in and out of the lab. The next best solution is which we use is nitrogen purge. (The majority of the longer term PODS are Nitro purged) problem with nitrogen purge is, not everyone one has access to that. That would defeat the point of putting something together than anyone could with normal resources.

And if it were my kit, I would fill every available space with instant coffee packets. A little quality of life goes a long way.Yes it would
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5col 12-27-2010 21:14
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This is great info. Thanks a bunch for the post.

For the PVC tubes, are you using sch 40 or sch 80, or...? Also, does regular PVC glue do the trick? I remember a master electrician telling me that water will penetrate buried conduit eventually...

cwi555 12-27-2010 22:26
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Water will penetrate standard PVC/sealant joint areas over time.
That was one of the reasons why the National Electrical Manufacturing Association came out with the NEMA TC-2 standard for electrical conduit among other things.

I use schedule 80 6". Min wall on Schedule 40 is .280", Min wall on Schedule 80 is .432". As mentioned before, I like to nitrogen purge. Trying to get a purge nipple in .280" that will seal is not easy. That extra .152" makes a lot of difference in getting a seal for that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 5col (Post 222725)
This is great info. Thanks a bunch for the post.

For the PVC tubes, are you using sch 40 or sch 80, or...? Also, does regular PVC glue do the trick? I remember a master electrician telling me that water will penetrate buried conduit eventually...
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aero86 12-27-2010 22:45
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someone asked about placement.. how about the 4 points relative to your location, somewhere north, south, east and west of you.. just a thought..

cwi555 12-27-2010 23:05
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Placement is up to the individual. a little forethought into it would likely yield a good location or few. I personally like the theory of hiding in plan sight.

Cajunlady 12-28-2010 01:25
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 222784)
Placement is up to the individual. a little forethought into it would likely yield a good location or few. I personally like the theory of hiding in plan sight.
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Due to my high water table, burying caches aren't an option for me, it's too risky. I paint the outside of the containers in colors to blend in more with the surroundings. Too, depending on the location they don't get painted at all.

OldFlJarhead 12-28-2010 11:56
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Sue 12-29-2010 12:17
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I posted this in the past so it might look familiar: I keep this in my car. All fits in a Nestles Quick plastic jug.
bean can for cooking, water bottle, sterno can, self-stick wound wrap, exam gloves, 3x3 gauze squares, topical anesthesia, tube of triple antibiotic, 3 sterile telfa pads, 1 cup pinto beans, 1 cup rice, 5 assorted suture material w/needles, handful of hard candy, LED flashlight/radio/red light/alarm, potable aqua tabs and neutralizers, pocket knife, assorted sml lures, hooks, and fishing line, stainless wire, metal mirror, magnesium firestarter, match sticks, cotton balls in vaseline, betadine sterile swab pads, and betadine solution, non-adhesive sterile bandage, compass, space blanket, 4 packs of Off mosquito wipes, water bag, 6 assorted meds incl. pain killer, ibuprophen, tranquilizers, 4 of those climbing/packing hooks that screw closed for hooking things to your backpack, and one that has a rubber circle to hold your water bottle. I still need a magnifying glass, snare wire, money, trash bag, and ammo in it. I know, I know, it's heavy on the med side, but until I replace it with something else, it stays.
Oh, and it weighs almost 4 lbs.
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...re3480-bov.jpg
www.survivaltopics.com/forums...ick-bottle.jpg


Cajunlady 12-29-2010 16:53
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Sue, quite an impressive car kit in the Nestle Quick container. Was wondering about the bag water container. It appears to hold a gallon of water, would you mind sharing where you are obtaining these as I like it a lot. Seems durable enough and has the pouring spout. Thanks.

SyntaxError 12-29-2010 20:18
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 222754)
Water will penetrate standard PVC/sealant joint areas over time.
That was one of the reasons why the National Electrical Manufacturing Association came out with the NEMA TC-2 standard for electrical conduit among other things.
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If PVC joints weren't waterproof, then every home in the world with PVC pipes would have extensive water damage.

It's just a matter of using the correct type of pipe and cement for your application.


PVC conduit is not the same as PVC water line. It's a different grade of material made specifically for the electrical industry.

NEMA has absolutely zero bearing on plumbing standards, just like National Plumbing Code has zero bearing on electrical conduit standards.

COB 12-29-2010 20:41
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Solar Geek (Post 222594)
I know you work around the world on very secretive projects. Are you telling us by any chance to get ready? The reason for the questions were I QUESTIONED the gov.'s release of the "how to survive a nuclear dirty bomb" or "attack" just this month. Is there something else going on? I am dead center Chicago and consider this question often. SG
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This information did not just get released this month. It has been posted on the DHS website for at least a year.

cwi555 12-29-2010 21:38
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With respect, that is incorrect information.

That's the same thought pattern that believes glass is solid. It is in fact a liquid. It flows over time. A lot of time, but it does in fact flow.

PVC pipe is not 'water proof'. But it won't soak your house using it either.
You can pour a bucket of water in an end capped PVC pipe and won't see water flowing. Not in 1 month, nor in 6 months or a year.
However; we are not talking about that short of term are we?
A survival cache is subject to be in the ground 5, 10, up to 30 years.

PVC is fine and dandy for your house plumbing, but it is the wrong material for long term subsurface caches. As for nema having no bearing on plumbing codes, you will have to show me where I said anything about a cache being built to plumbing codes?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SyntaxError (Post 223461)
If PVC joints weren't waterproof, then every home in the world with PVC pipes would have extensive water damage.

It's just a matter of using the correct type of pipe and cement for your application.


PVC conduit is not the same as PVC water line. It's a different grade of material made specifically for the electrical industry.

NEMA has absolutely zero bearing on plumbing standards, just like National Plumbing Code has zero bearing on electrical conduit standards.
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cwi555 12-29-2010 21:41
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That is true. Longer than a year actually. It's been recently that the mass media talking heads have picked up on it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by COB (Post 223471)
This information did not just get released this month. It has been posted on the DHS website for at least a year.
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SyntaxError 12-31-2010 09:10
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 223497)
As for nema having no bearing on plumbing codes, you will have to show me where I said anything about a cache being built to plumbing codes?
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Here's the relevant quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 222754)
Water will penetrate standard PVC/sealant joint areas over time.
That was one of the reasons why the National Electrical Manufacturing Association came out with the NEMA TC-2 standard for electrical conduit among other things.
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You may not have meant to make it sound like plumbing code and NEMA had anything to do with each other, but that's the way it sounds.

In the meantime, PVC will do fine for caches. In 30 years, I'll be far too old and probably too infirm to worry about needing a cache, so pvc that takes 30 years to leak is not an issue.

BTW, only leaded glass flows over time. Modern glass does not.

Sue 12-31-2010 10:54
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cajunlady (Post 223381)
Sue, quite an impressive car kit in the Nestle Quick container. Was wondering about the bag water container. It appears to hold a gallon of water, would you mind sharing where you are obtaining these as I like it a lot. Seems durable enough and has the pouring spout. Thanks.
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I really don't remember, but most of my shopping is from (in order) Wal-Mart, 99 cent store, and Harbor Freight. It probably came from Wal-Mart's campine dept.

WOODYZ 12-31-2010 12:52
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 223497)
With respect, that is incorrect information.

That's the same thought pattern that believes glass is solid. It is in fact a liquid. It flows over time. A lot of time, but it does in fact flow.

PVC pipe is not 'water proof'. But it won't soak your house using it either.
You can pour a bucket of water in an end capped PVC pipe and won't see water flowing. Not in 1 month, nor in 6 months or a year.
However; we are not talking about that short of term are we?
A survival cache is subject to be in the ground 5, 10, up to 30 years.

PVC is fine and dandy for your house plumbing, but it is the wrong material for long term subsurface caches. As for nema having no bearing on plumbing codes, you will have to show me where I said anything about a cache being built to plumbing codes?
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I think there is a key point being made here. When hearing the word cache some hear long term and some hear short. When I place a cache it is for either a short term place to catch my breath or get well. Or, it is somewhere I can go and resupply because I have been active longer than planned or some needed items were taken from me or lost. My cache plan is based on six months or less.
Semper Fi

cwi555 12-31-2010 13:19
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I meant it just how I said it. NEMA standard PVC utilizing a different mix all together. If you took it some other way, there isn't much I can do about that.

As for 30 years, I've rotated some of ours that were showing signs of water at 12 years. The problem again is in the mix. Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is broken down by the sealant to solidify the joint. The chloride part of that is the part that is at issue for standard Polyvinyl Chloride. There was a long time when (up into this last decade) when there really wasn't much of a standard for the sealant. With that comes research in the last few years that is suggesting the Chlorine is leaching out of the mix. Combine this with the typical lack of consideration for the soil chemistry, and there is a strong potential for a problem. polyethylene, polypropylene, and polyisobutylene piping does not show the same concern. Neither does the NEMA grades.


If you want more a more technically correct synopsis, PM me, but the gist of the failure mechanism is in the above. do also remember that not everyone stores for less than 10 years. There are people out there who have had items stored for a lifetime. My perspective is 5 year base, 5 year squared minimum stay for long term pods, and 5 year minimum rotations. Everyone is going to be different. There are also those who never intend to store more than 6 months.

The intent of this thread was to give a brief example for people to consider. There are a lot of folks out there just starting out without any clear direction or thought. The items featured here are to provoke that thought, not to exemplify an end all solution.

With that said, Its now threatening to turn into a pissing match that is muddying that intent. Feel free to comment again, but it will go unanswered by myself.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SyntaxError (Post 223985)
Here's the relevant quote:


You may not have meant to make it sound like plumbing code and NEMA had anything to do with each other, but that's the way it sounds.

In the meantime, PVC will do fine for caches. In 30 years, I'll be far too old and probably too infirm to worry about needing a cache, so pvc that takes 30 years to leak is not an issue.
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Cajunlady 12-31-2010 13:41
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cwi555 (Post 224089)
The intent of this thread was to give a brief example for people to consider. There are a lot of folks out there just starting out without any clear direction or thought. The items featured here are to provoke that thought, not to exemplify an end all solution.
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And I'm sure I'm not just speaking for myself when I say thankyou cwi for any and all information you choose to share with us. I really look forward to reading your posts and learn much from them. Keep up the great work!


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Last resort survival pods (picture heavy) (http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/survival-news-discussion/15492-last-resort-survival-pods-picture-heavy.html)

WOODYZ 12-31-2010 13:53
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Maybe I can explain. I have my 24hr kit with me at all times. This is the bag to get me home, but I can rough it for 1 night out. At home are my vec/rv/72hr/48hr/and mini/kits. So if my home were destroyed in a tornado, or occupied by an unfriendly source, those options are not open to me.

We

I hope I didn't do anything wrong/bad by posting it. I thought it had a lot of information captured that was good for the post. I didn't want to "edit" any one else's posting, so I put it out as I had print screened it from the other site.

Nope, you didn't do anything wrong.
I was just commenting on the tone se took regarding the information. As a general rule of thumb, I make every effort to properly vet all information.
The information on the glass for instance has gone back and forth in scientific circles for decades. The best answer is yes over large amounts of time, silica based glass does flow very slowly.
Added elements to the glass change that, just as alloying any solid with other elements will change its characteristics. There are issues with standard PVC over time as well. He apparently couldn’t understand that even a few drops of water getting through over 20-30 years could screw up the cache. It was taken as if PVC gushes water, it does not, but unlike a house where a few drops over the course of decades is effectively inconsequential, those few drops of water are enough to contaminate a cache. I apparently failed to find the right words to convey that concept.