Genny's

[USCGME2]

Been thinking of getting a generator for the obvious event of power disruption. I really know very little about them so I was hoping to spark discussion around a few questions:

1) How much output does one need? That is to say, I know I cant really run my air cond off a 5kw but, is that enough to give me light and run say a fridge or freezer? Maybe even my TV for a bit?

2) What are the basics for hooking them up? Do's and Donts?

3) How often should you run them? You know, to keep the thing tuned right so its running when needed?

4) Recommended types/ brand names?

5) Preferred fuel types; diesel, gas, two stroke/4, LPG, LNG etc? Are some multifuel?

6) Do surplus army models work well? Can they be gotten on the cheap?

I think you all get my non-knowledge of these things by this point. Any and all discussion is welcome. Thanks!

[Deleted]

Jim bought me one for a temp fix until I can get some kind of solar back up system. It is a 6000/7500 Kingcraft. He bought 4 of them at Alsi's grocery store on sale for $350 each. They aren't a fancy name brand, but they work great! I have a box on my basement wall set up so when the power goes out, I just run the line outside and plug it into the genny. It will run an assortment of indiviual or combination of my deep freezer, fridge, stove, microwave, and a set of 4 different outlets through the house, one includes the tv and dvd player. I also have it set so if I want to run the hot water heater, I can flip a series of switches and have hot water and a light for taking a shower. Flip 2 switches and everything is shut down and ther deepwell is kicked on so my water heater and tanks can refill.

The way it is set, if the power goes out, I flip a main breaker and it kills ALL power into the house, flip a main under it and it kicks the lines to the genny into being hot. Just do them in reverse...when the power comes on, flip the breaker access off and the main breaker back on.

The genny sets outside the house and I was suprised at how much it does on so little fuel. Especially if I keep my usage down and don't max its output out. One I am SERIOUSLY considering is the Generac 36KW QuietSource system (propane) for a permenant backup for the house whether I get the solar set up or not. With tansfer switches and such, of course. No point in investing that muh money and not getting it done right!

I am working on getting a solar set up strictly for running my deepwell...eventually on a permenant basis. Marc & TJ are gonna help me figure out the well and a system for the house. At that point, I will just have the gas genny for an emergency backup at a BOL.

I was told to start it up once a week and let it run for 15 minutes to keep the rings and seals all lubbed good and to keep everything in good working order and cleaned out.

[missasip]

May 18, 2012 20:40:07 GMT -7 USCGME2 said:

Been thinking of getting a generator for the obvious event of power disruption. I really know very little about them so I was hoping to spark discussion around a few questions:

1) How much output does one need? That is to say, I know I cant really run my air cond off a 5kw but, is that enough to give me light and run say a fridge or freezer? Maybe even my TV for a bit?

A 5 kw should be able to run all but the largest ac units. Starting amps is the biggie. Once the unit is running, other stuff can be added. I have a 3500 and it runs a 9000btu window rattler, freezer, fridge and lights all at once. I only have the window unit for emcs. It has everything to do with how much you want to run and $$$

2) What are the basics for hooking them up? Do's and Donts?

If you don't know what your are attemping, use an qualified electrican. If none of that can be done, then only use extention cords. You want to avoid feedback thru your utilities' meter.

3) How often should you run them? You know, to keep the thing tuned right so its running when needed?

I try to run mine once a month, under load. I put a quart of treated fuel in and run it till it runs out. I leave no fuel in the machine. Same as I do all my small engines.

4) Recommended types/ brand names?

No particular ones come to mind. Northern Hydr has as big a chose of quality gensets as there is.

5) Preferred fuel types; diesel, gas, two stroke/4, LPG, LNG etc? Are some multifuel?

Up to you. They all work well. Having that fuel on hand when you need it, is to me the most important thing. You got no fuel, you got no power.


6) Do surplus army models work well? Can they be gotten on the cheap?

No clue. they don't interest me much.

I think you all get my non-knowledge of these things by this point. Any and all discussion is welcome. Thanks!

Hope that helps some.

Jimmy

[angelhelp]

So they CAN be used via extension cord only.

That'd be our choice if we bought one since we know nothing about how to install it properly.

[missasip]

May 19, 2012 9:36:08 GMT -7 angelhelp said:

So they CAN be used via extension cord only.

That'd be our choice if we bought one since we know nothing about how to install it properly.

Yea mame. Actually if it's a portable unit, your utility company would perfer extention cords only. If it's a permenent installtion, done correctly, that's fine too.

The deal is isolating your genset from any chance of feeding back.

Jimmy

[missasip]

One other thing I forgot to mention. If you want to get the max life and use from your genset, purchase a $15-20 box fan to set in front of it. This will take maybe 50-100 watts. That is nothing compared to the life extention to your engine. Moving that air thru your set will make it run cooler and be more efficent.

Jimmy

[oldcoothillbilly]

May 18, 2012 20:40:07 GMT -7 USCGME2 said:

Been thinking of getting a generator for the obvious event of power disruption. I really know very little about them so I was hoping to spark discussion around a few questions:

1) How much output does one need? That is to say, I know I cant really run my air cond off a 5kw but, is that enough to give me light and run say a fridge or freezer? Maybe even my TV for a bit?

Best thin ta do is sit down an add up how many watts yall gonna need an er wan't. Leave a bit a room fer extra, but remember, the bigger the generator the more fuel it gonna use, but don't undersize either. Google wattages, there be lists fer appliances an such.

2) What are the basics for hooking them up? Do's and Donts?

Small portables ya can run off cords, BUT ya need the right size cord fer the loads an distances from the generator. To small a cord an yer gonna loose voltage what can harm electronics an overheat cords. Bigger units should be wired direct with a automatic disconnect switch. These should be installed by a qualified person, not real cheap, but not overly expensive if ya tell somebody there ain't no rush on it. Might cut ya a deal ifin they can work on it durin a slow time.

3) How often should you run them? You know, to keep the thing tuned right so its running when needed?

Run it under load ever month. Keeps em workin fine.

4) Recommended types/ brand names?

This gonna depend on what size yer lookin fer. Stay away from the cheap ones, there voltage regulation stinks an they ain't built ta last long. Spend a little more an get a heavy duty unit. I ain't bought one in years, but we've had excellent luck with Onan units, but they ain't cheap. However, yall might pick up a good used one at a RV junk yard.

5) Preferred fuel types; diesel, gas, two stroke/4, LPG, LNG etc? Are some multifuel?

I'd go with a four stroke fer sure, gas er diesel, cause both will be lots easier ta store ifin it works in other stuff ya got, plus can be easier ta scavange if need be. Just rotate out yer fuels with yer other equipment ta help keep it fresh. Use a fuel stabelizer.

6) Do surplus army models work well? Can they be gotten on the cheap?

Yup, I got 2, one big one (set it where ya wan't it cause it ain't easy ta move!) an a smaller unit. The smaller unit I got just fer gettin it outa the buildin. Spen't $100 gettin it goin. Nice thing bout military stuff, they generally let ya choose yer voltage an phase set ups by simply movin some wires around. My small one will operate on 120v single phase, 240v single phas an 3 phase an 480 3 phase. All diagrams be on the control box.

Thin bout military stuff be parts availability, stock what parts ya need cause yer not likely ta find em in town. Not a big deal, points, plugs, wires, condensor, dist. cap an such. Maybe a carb rebuild kit. These thins be built ta run an are heavy, but built ta last to. My small one be on a cart so I can move it.

I think you all get my non-knowledge of these things by this point. Any and all discussion is welcome. Thanks!

So, now yall gonna have ta decide what ya wanna do. Not a easy decision fer sure. I like my small one cause I can take it with me (alothough I ain't tossin it in the back a the truck, trailer yes!) but the big one be able ta run anythin I wan't at home.

Ifin yall got more questions just ask!

[mud]

My brother and I have been looking into those 1250 watt small 2 stroke models for charging our cordless tools when working our property. There are several reviews that say they can run a fridge or freezer but only one at a time as for tools and our uses I think the low cost and portability would be worth it.

opinions?

[missasip]

May 20, 2012 20:21:04 GMT -7 mud said:

My brother and I have been looking into those 1250 watt small 2 stroke models for charging our cordless tools when working our property. There are several reviews that say they can run a fridge or freezer but only one at a time as for tools and our uses I think the low cost and portability would be worth it.

opinions?

Yep, they should handle either one. As you said one at a time. Starting amps is what uses up the genset. Once running, they require very little power to run. I'm not too much on board with the two stroke. But that's JMO. They are more designed for a short run time.

Also remember as long as you don't fan the door on your freezers, they only need to be run to cycle once a day.

Jimmy

[mud]

May 20, 2012 21:37:00 GMT -7 missasip said:

May 20, 2012 20:21:04 GMT -7 mud said:

My brother and I have been looking into those 1250 watt small 2 stroke models for charging our cordless tools when working our property. There are several reviews that say they can run a fridge or freezer but only one at a time as for tools and our uses I think the low cost and portability would be worth it.

opinions?

Yep, they should handle either one. As you said one at a time. Starting amps is what uses up the genset. Once running, they require very little power to run. I'm not too much on board with the two stroke. But that's JMO. They are more designed for a short run time.

Also remember as long as you don't fan the door on your freezers, they only need to be run to cycle once a day.

Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy. The idea for us again is just using them for charging cordless tools and possibly running lights after dark and if needed a battery charger for a vehicle. Sounds like it would be worth a shot no more than they cost. As far as two stroke engines go I have quite a bit of experience with them on the motorcycle version and can tell you straight up if you keep your lower end greased and the right mix in the tank they last a very long time. I had a KE100 that had 14000 miles on it when it let go and it was my fault for neglecting the oil injection. I have no doubt it would still be running otherwise My kdx200 I built completely and it had 9000 trail miles on it (trip computer added during rebuild) and would still run like a striped butt ape(highly modified though, very very close to a racing 125 which is very powerful)

[missasip]

May 20, 2012 22:06:54 GMT -7 mud said:

May 20, 2012 21:37:00 GMT -7 missasip said:

Yep, they should handle either one. As you said one at a time. Starting amps is what uses up the genset. Once running, they require very little power to run. I'm not too much on board with the two stroke. But that's JMO. They are more designed for a short run time.

Also remember as long as you don't fan the door on your freezers, they only need to be run to cycle once a day.

Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy. The idea for us again is just using them for charging cordless tools and possibly running lights after dark and if needed a battery charger for a vehicle. Sounds like it would be worth a shot no more than they cost. As far as two stroke engines go I have quite a bit of experience with them on the motorcycle version and can tell you straight up if you keep your lower end greased and the right mix in the tank they last a very long time. I had a KE100 that had 14000 miles on it when it let go and it was my fault for neglecting the oil injection. I have no doubt it would still be running otherwise My kdx200 I built completely and it had 9000 trail miles on it (trip computer added during rebuild) and would still run like a striped butt ape(highly modified though, very very close to a racing 125 which is very powerful)

Mud you are so right. I didn't mean on a long haul. I thought two strokes were meant for up and down rpms. I know my ex BILs raced 400/490 Yamahas and could go all season.

If they can hold and keep a steady rpm for long periods, then that's great. Find out what RPM they run at. They may have four pole altenators and that would keep the revs at 1800.

Sounds like a winner for ya'll. Let us know how they work out!

Jimmy

[Cwi555]

I can't think of a good reason a smaller generator could not be hooked into charge controllers, battery bank, and inverter. The battery bank could provide the extra starting amperage, while the smaller generator maintains the system as a car would.

I've purchased a 68 VW generator and regulator for experimental purposes. Is there any reason anyone can think of why this wouldn't work before I spring for the 12VDC to 110 inverter?

[oldcoothillbilly]

May 21, 2012 13:38:25 GMT -7 Cwi555 said:

I can't think of a good reason a smaller generator could not be hooked into charge controllers, battery bank, and inverter. The battery bank could provide the extra starting amperage, while the smaller generator maintains the system as a car would.

I've purchased a 68 VW generator and regulator for experimental purposes. Is there any reason anyone can think of why this wouldn't work before I spring for the 12VDC to 110 inverter?

I don't see why not, long as yer inverter can handle the maximum load yer puttin on it. All yer doin is usin the generator ta charge the batteries.

[missasip]

May 21, 2012 13:38:25 GMT -7 Cwi555 said:

I can't think of a good reason a smaller generator could not be hooked into charge controllers, battery bank, and inverter. The battery bank could provide the extra starting amperage, while the smaller generator maintains the system as a car would.

I've purchased a 68 VW generator and regulator for experimental purposes. Is there any reason anyone can think of why this wouldn't work before I spring for the 12VDC to 110 inverter?

No doubt. I've built several very simular. Though I would not use a generator at all. IIRC a VW gen is only about 28-35 amps and needs more consant speed and more rpm than an altenator. A 35-55 amp altenator of any brand will do a much better job. An altenator will start charging as soon as it starts spinning. Plus the charge rate is much easier to control.

But if your just wanting to use that generator, it'll will work, just not as effective or efficent.

Keep us up on your progress.

Jimmy

[Cwi555]

May 21, 2012 16:29:23 GMT -7 missasip said:

May 21, 2012 13:38:25 GMT -7 Cwi555 said:

I can't think of a good reason a smaller generator could not be hooked into charge controllers, battery bank, and inverter. The battery bank could provide the extra starting amperage, while the smaller generator maintains the system as a car would.

I've purchased a 68 VW generator and regulator for experimental purposes. Is there any reason anyone can think of why this wouldn't work before I spring for the 12VDC to 110 inverter?

No doubt. I've built several very simular. Though I would not use a generator at all. IIRC a VW gen is only about 28-35 amps and needs more consant speed and more rpm than an altenator. A 35-55 amp altenator of any brand will do a much better job. An altenator will start charging as soon as it starts spinning. Plus the charge rate is much easier to control.

But if your just wanting to use that generator, it'll will work, just not as effective or efficent.

Keep us up on your progress.

Jimmy

I picked up the parts at a VW show, 10 bucks for the gen and 20 for the regulator.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but this is my understanding of the alternator vs generator.

The circuitry of an alternator needs a good voltage from the battery to feed the alternator windings so that a magnetic field is established inside, before the spinning rotor produces anything as it needs feed back voltage. An alternator has diodes that convert the AC current which is rectified to produce DC. This is what feeds the back current to the battery. Alternators do produce more power over all, but my concern was in the need to produce a magnetic field in order to work properly. I don't think thats a good thing when it comes to EMP. An alternator does have a higher output, but the generator starts producing power as soon as it spins.

The EMP part is the primary purpose of doing it this way. I can also rebuild a generator a lot easier than trying to rebuild three stator windings and potentially blown diodes due to an overwhelmed P-N junction.



My understanding is that is the home threat to vehicles. If a current overwhelms the junction, it will fry it, and or degrade it to the point that it starts going downhill over time.

If I have the function and build of a generator vs alternator wrong let me know.