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Post by WILL on Jul 16, 2012 17:40:13 GMT -7
Here's a great link for ideas on how to pack light... www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=42139I was just on the BCUSA forum, and the folks there were talking about what knife they back pack with. Evidently, multiple posters there carry forest axes and several large knives I don't know, maybe they are in Greek statue shape or they don't know what back packing means? Half the time I'm seriously debating throwing my food off the side of a mountain because I'm sick of carrying the weight. For the life of me, I can't understand how these guys do it. I guess I could pull it off in an emergency, but it wouldn't be fun. I can relate to the above listed site so much better than BCUSA "back-packers". I didn't post this there because I didn't want to get banned, but I had to say it somewhere.
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Post by cowgirlup on Jul 16, 2012 18:16:56 GMT -7
Eh? What's he going to eat? ( Unless one of those products he metnons is a food brand I haven't heard of)Must be a heck of a pre trip meal!
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Post by pathwinder14 on Jul 17, 2012 4:19:48 GMT -7
Here's a great link for ideas on how to pack light... www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=42139I was just on the BCUSA forum, and the folks there were talking about what knife they back pack with. Evidently, multiple posters there carry forest axes and several large knives I don't know, maybe they are in Greek statue shape or they don't know what back packing means? Half the time I'm seriously debating throwing my food off the side of a mountain because I'm sick of carrying the weight. For the life of me, I can't understand how these guys do it. I guess I could pull it off in an emergency, but it wouldn't be fun. I can relate to the above listed site so much better than BCUSA "back-packers". I didn't post this there because I didn't want to get banned, but I had to say it somewhere. How much weight do you carry? What kind of physical condition are you in?
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Post by WILL on Jul 17, 2012 5:49:37 GMT -7
Here's a great link for ideas on how to pack light... www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=42139I was just on the BCUSA forum, and the folks there were talking about what knife they back pack with. Evidently, multiple posters there carry forest axes and several large knives I don't know, maybe they are in Greek statue shape or they don't know what back packing means? Half the time I'm seriously debating throwing my food off the side of a mountain because I'm sick of carrying the weight. For the life of me, I can't understand how these guys do it. I guess I could pull it off in an emergency, but it wouldn't be fun. I can relate to the above listed site so much better than BCUSA "back-packers". I didn't post this there because I didn't want to get banned, but I had to say it somewhere. How much weight do you carry? What kind of physical condition are you in? Depending on the weather conditions we're expecting to encounter, my pack's been weighing in between 30-38 pounds. Admittedly, I carry some "luxury" items that make life in the woods more bearable such as an inflatable pillow, cigars, a change of clothing and plenty of good food. I also can't afford some of the hyper-light weight gear the UL guys use. That said, there's no way in hell I'm packing a Forrest ax. Not only have I never needed one while back-packing, but they are silly heavy items. As for my physical condition, I bench press 315 and jog 2 miles 3x a week. I'm 511/ 225lbs. I'm not a marathon runner, but I aint a couch potato neither. Here I am... You see those mountains in the background...we go up and down them all day. Everyone I know and all the hikers I've met are always searching out ways to make their packs lighter and more efficient. I've never even seen a bush-crafter on the trail. I met one hiker new to the sport who had a huge pack including a small boy scout ax. He was so sad looking and swore that the next time he would pack differently. Let me add this, I enjoy bush crafting. I also love to back-pack. The crux of this thread is really how I'm having difficulty melding the two activities when it comes to pack weight. Evidently these BCUSA guys are back-packing alot of heavy metal items. To be honest, when I'm putting my pack together I'm looking at every way possible to shave weight off it. Ounces add up to pounds as the saying goes. Just my basic kit containing the necessary items to provide food, shelter and clothing is about as much weight as I want to carry. Bush crafting items are not needed in back-packing and the added weight (for me) detracts from the enjoyment of hiking so much that I can't fathom carrying those items. I don't understand the concept and left scratching my head. I know I'm in good physical shape so that's not it. Maybe these guys aren't traveling very far on the trail? Bottom line, Bush crafting and back-pacing almost seem like mutually exclusive sports to me. If I'm back-packing I don't have the time or energy to build my shelter, fabricate field implements or carry the tools to do it. If I carry bush crafting tools, it detracts from the backpacking experience to the point that it becomes un-enjoyable for me. My back packing goal is to travel and experience as much of the land as possible. If I'm bush crafting, I'm not hiking, I'm field crafting stuff. I don't understand how people mix the two sports, but evidently the BCUSA folks back-pack and bush craft simultaneously all the time.
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Post by WILL on Jul 17, 2012 7:09:40 GMT -7
What I suspect is happening is the bush crafting guys aren't truly back-packing. They load up all their heavy gear and hike in a mile or three to set up a base camp. They make some day hikes from there with a reduced load, but they spend most of their time stationary, doing field craft stuff. I'd love to hear from some bush-crafters to straighten me out on this issue.
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Post by geron on Jul 17, 2012 7:28:04 GMT -7
Agreed. Two different endeavors. Bush Crafting requires a donkey or two to haul the, axes, saws, dutch ovens, Cast iron skillets, an adze or two, muskets, lead, powder, fat back, beans, rice, flour, meal, sugar, salt, steel traps, baskets, pelts, rawhide, tee pee poles, canvas tarps . . Well . . . I may be going a bit too far here Backpacking. Enough to "get out alive" . . . maybe. Half in fun and half serious. I see it as two different concepts.
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Post by 720flysurvive on Jul 17, 2012 7:36:58 GMT -7
Love my axe. Goes on every trip with me, same as my knives. My pack is 35-40 lbs. I'm not a Greek god, but it's doable none the less. I think the UL types are trying for 20 miles a day. Me, well 5-10 is go enough. If I wanted to drop some weight I could easy enough. But my ax and knives will always be the core of what I carry
Do really need a water filter, fancy , MSR stove, tent or hammock,........
I personally love how the onces geeks look at my ax with discust Point is that every thing we pack, beyond our knives is a luxury
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Post by pathwinder14 on Jul 17, 2012 7:56:02 GMT -7
You sir, are in great shape! In the picture you provided however, it's hard to tell what you carry on your person. Do you spread any weight around your body?
I ask because I feel I have successfully blended bushcrafting and hiking into a good mesh for myself. My pack, including water, only weighs 20 lbs (not counting food). However, I carry 5-10 lbs on my person as well. And yes, I carry a hatchet. I can go about 10 mountain miles (lovely switchbacks) or 15 flat miles comfortably.
Most likely it will come down to the specific list of items you carry. Is the inflatable pillow necessary when you can use a rolled up pair of shorts?
Do you carry a gun + ammo? I don't. I hike mainly in the southern Illinois area and we don't have more than coyotes and an occasional bobcat. Both of those tend to leave people alone. If your area dictates a firearm (for bears or wolves) that would add extra weight.
Things I don't carry to save weight: Tent - A tarp takes less time to set up and weighs less. It can be configured in any way needed. It can also be insulated if need be with leaves or pine boughs. Sleeping pad - I use leaves or pine boughs. Sleeping Bag - I carry and use a 100% alpaca wool blanket and a reusable space blanket. Camp Stove - I only hike in areas where I can make a small fire. This also reduces the need to carry fuel. Mess Kit - I cook my food in a lightweight metal cup (Yes I eat a lot of ramen and stew). Anything else I roast/grill over the fire. Water Filter - I make one if I need to out of my extra freezer bags.
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Post by angelhelp on Jul 17, 2012 9:22:26 GMT -7
Sometime, not right this moment, I ought to weigh my pack. I too tend to mix what could be considered bushcrafting and backpacking. There's nowhere in this area that it's ok to build a fire OR use a tent OR put up a hammock. Unless all the bloodsucking bugs are gone for the season, I have no intention of using anything but a tent if I can help it. I carry tarps as well, useful for a footprint beneath the tent to reduce wear & tear, and to lay over the top of the tent to provide added rain protection. Formerly I used to carry one huge tarp; now I have 2. I've never been what I'd call a couch spud, but I'm not 20 anymore either. Walking up the hills in the nearby park is definitely a slower walk than on level ground. It is my choice, but I'd rather go a little slower and know I have everything with me that I feel I need to carry than to obsess over cutting an ounce here or there. I have little enough time to spend freely as it is (teacher and church organist, and it's going to take me at least a week to move my stuff in my classroom to the 2nd floor -- anyone who thinks teachers have a guarantee of "summer off" is mistaken) and I cannot tolerate hot humid weather (basically Easter through Halloween). The walking I do is to try to improve my conditioning and it seems to be helping, so I'll continue to opt for a heavier load.
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Post by thywar on Jul 17, 2012 12:49:44 GMT -7
I guess my goal is to be able to hike out with more than I need because if I have to hike out it's because I'm not coming back and the more NECESSARY items I take the easier it will be for me wherever I end up. I've gone overnight with nothing but an Army poncho and two canteens. I did it, wasn't fun and hope I never do it again. So my pack will necessarily consist of bushcraft and hiking gear.
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Post by WILL on Jul 17, 2012 15:15:01 GMT -7
Thywar- I totally get packing alot of Bush Craft items for a bug out bag. I'm talking about recreational back-packing where enjoying the outdoors on a long distance walk is the objective. For bugging out, carry whatever you need to up your survival odds.
Geron- You summed it up nicely for me.
Pathwinder and 720- Let me explain myself this way. I hike at about 1.5 miles an hour. Most hikers average about that speed in the mountains. Let's say I want to hike 9 miles in a day. That's an average hiking day for a recreational back-packer. That's about 6 hours of solid hiking. That doesn't take into account stopping for lunch or resting while soaking up some mountain top vistas. Let’s add another 1.5 hours for those activities. So with pulling out of camp at 0900hrs and following that time line, you're arriving at camp again at about 1630hrs. Usually by the second day of hiking like that, I’m not exactly full of piss and vinegar when I drag into camp. Ok, that gives me a few hours to purify water, wash cloths and line dry if possible, maybe hunt up some dead-fall and build a fire, cook dinner, clean up dishes after dinner, filter more water for coffee and breakfast in the morning, pitch a tent, set up my sleeping system, wash up and brush my teeth, hang the bear bag, use the "bathroom," tend to any medical or gear issues that developed in the day, and I like to smoke a cigar and socialize before falling out from exhaustion. Remember, I have two kids to see to also. Normally, I’m just about fitting all that in by nightfall. Where in that time frame is bush crafting going on? At which point do I have the energy and time to build shelter, fabricate field implements or do things old school in any way shape or form. Seriously, using all the modern conveniences science has to offer, I just don't have time to hike that distance and bush craft too. That's not even taking into account hiking an 11 or 12 mile day which is a fairly regular occurrence or the added weight of a full sized tree felling ax, folding bow saw, 10” full tang chopper blade, a smaller bush craft knife, Leatherman, ect sucking the life out of me. Seriously, these BCUSA guys are carrying upwards of 6-10 pounds of heavy metal gear with the intent of engaging in time and energy consuming field crafts. Something’s gotta give here.
I can maybe see others packing a hawk even though in over 20 years of back-packing, I’ve gotten by just dandy without one. For that reason alone, I won’t bring it. Maybe for a winter hike. A knife..I definitely gat that, just the lightest knife I can carry that accomplishes the job.
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Post by 720flysurvive on Jul 17, 2012 15:47:58 GMT -7
Perhaps I was un clear
1 I like to carry stuff mentioned above, plus a bit more. I'm not a ounces geek, my best friend is and I find it funny 2 I have children to tend to as well (70% of the time ) and on those thrips I'm caring a butt load more cause of the kids. I do make a point of teaching them bush craft wham the come, mainly by hiking lesser distance with them. A So like to do boast town hike with them to reenforce old school teaching 3 I carry lives and ax on my belt. I was taught that if the weight is on your hips, that it's weight not felt? Thing is I love throwing ax's, it entertainment ( same goes for the sling shot ) plus the ax has multiple uses
So I ( think ) I totally get where your coming from, and for the basic truth is anything beyond a knife is a Luxry. All that means is I/we can and should be able to thive in the woods with nothing more.
Trust me I would rather have my water filter on hand for the simple fact that it's fast and easy same goes for every modern thing I carry
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Post by thywar on Jul 17, 2012 15:53:06 GMT -7
Gotcha Will, I think I took the thread to a different point of view. So in that event I agree with you about only taking the things that will get you through on your hike. I liked your list for your last AT hike. Seems you made out fine.. well moleskin would have helped if I recall But all in all it seemed you had a great trip with what you carried
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Post by pathwinder14 on Jul 18, 2012 5:00:14 GMT -7
Will, 2 kids does make it more difficult. I deffinitely understand. It's hard to get my 5 year old to even listen to me. That being said, I see some differences. 0900 to 1630 is 7.5 hours. At 1.5 miles an hour you are going 11.25 miles a day. As I stated earlier I go 10 mountain miles a day comfortably. Anything more is uncomfortable. I also tend to start out earlier (0700) specifically so I have more time to do quick bushcraft tasks, like throw up a tarp, build a bed of boughs, etc. Keep in mind too that I am not doing extreme bushcrafting, just minimal easy stuff. I don't sit there and make cordage out of bark, weave baskets, trap food, or make stuff I don't need. I know how to do many of those things but I only do what I need to do. I also multitask this stuff. First thing I do is get a fire going and boil water. While that's going I get my shelter up. While the fire is still going I gather pine boughs or leaves for my bedding. I don't really do more than that unless I have to. I'll carve tent pegs or gig barbs by the fire if I need to. In fact this has given me an ide for a new thread...
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Post by WILL on Jul 18, 2012 5:34:29 GMT -7
I also multitask this stuff. First thing I do is get a fire going and boil water. While that's going I get my shelter up. While the fire is still going I gather pine boughs or leaves for my bedding. I don't really do more than that unless I have to. I'll carve tent pegs or gig barbs by the fire if I need to. In fact this has given me an ide for a new thread... Questions- What do you do about fire if it's raining? I ask because that's exactly why I bring my stove. There are days on the trail when a fire just isn't happening for me. Does the pine bough bedding get your sleeping bag sappy? Also, since you don't carry a water filter, do you also build a fire for breakfast and purifying water for the days hike? How much water do you carry? I carry 1-3 liters depending on if it's dry season. I try to carry as little water as possible because it's heavy, and I re-supply through the day as we come across it. One time my water filter broke and back-up pills didn't work out. We had to boil water and it was a PITA. Gathering the materials, making the fire, boiling the water, waiting for it to cool some to pour it into the canteens, and you wanted a cool drink so again you had to wait for it to cool more, ect. It was all very time and energy consuming and basically changed the focus of the trip from hiking to processing water. I also didn't like being fire reliant because as I said earlier, sometimes field conditions are such that a fire just isn't happening.
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