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Post by Cwi555 on Jul 27, 2012 19:27:18 GMT -7
I saw this one on another forum. I will put it here slightly different.
Many believe they can draw, rack a round in, and fire at close quarters before an assailant can get to you. I call this a myth. The human brain requires time to react in full even if you have precognitive knowledge of what may happen. The amount of that time varies per person. If they are under ten feet, you wont have time rack one into the chamber.
To safely test this, put a standard pill bottle in your pocket. Have a friend at the distance you wish to test attempt to grab you wrist before you can open that bottle.
The time to open that pill bottle, is about how much time a fast set of hands can draw, rack the round, and fire.
Think about, try the bottle exercise yourself.
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Post by alex on Jul 27, 2012 19:44:31 GMT -7
My thing is this...it has a chamber....why not keep it loaded??? The whole 21 foot rule is one to keep in mind. the pill bottle, racking a round and the charge of an assailant from 21 feet is all about the same...better to store cocked and locked than wish you would have.
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Post by Cwi555 on Jul 27, 2012 19:50:43 GMT -7
My thing is this...it has a chamber....why not keep it loaded??? The whole 21 foot rule is one to keep in mind. the pill bottle, racking a round and the charge of an assailant from 21 feet is all about the same...better to store cocked and locked than wish you would have. Agreed; but there are a number of people who don't trust one in the chamber or one lined up in a cylinder. |
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Post by hunter63 on Jul 27, 2012 21:31:54 GMT -7
OK here in one I just heard at a range last Sat.......
Guy was shooting .22 hollow point ammo, claimed it was more accurate as the hollow point "makes a hole in the air" so it's less effected by wind.
Also, sub sonic .22's are more accurate as they don't break the sound barrier, and suffer from turbulence as it breaks the barrier.
Thoughts?
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Post by hunter63 on Jul 27, 2012 21:35:21 GMT -7
Do have a reference for this? Are we talking unneeded wear?, ......higher pressures? Not trying to give you a bad time just curious. Spare parts are always a good thing, no matter what. The reference is my own work. I am talking some higher pressures but not dangerous levels. The rounds work just fine, but they do produce accelerated wear rates for the reasons I detailed above. Thanks, and makes sense....and I don't think the QC is as good with most fo the steel cases I have fired, mostly the cheap Russian stuff. They do seem "sticky" when you work the action.... |
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Post by Cwi555 on Jul 28, 2012 0:49:19 GMT -7
OK here in one I just heard at a range last Sat....... Guy was shooting .22 hollow point ammo, claimed it was more accurate as the hollow point "makes a hole in the air" so it's less effected by wind. Also, sub sonic .22's are more accurate as they don't break the sound barrier, and suffer from turbulence as it breaks the barrier. Thoughts? I can tell you that the idea of hollow points "making a hole in the air" is bs. It doesn't work that way, if it did, aircraft pitot-static tubes would never work as it would create a 'hole in the air' preventing air travel into the tube.  Most of the higher end target rounds are round nosed btw. There is a connection for accuracy when you get to centerfire jacketed bullets. It's primarily due to being able to draw the jacket over the dies from the base to a hollow point vs, drawing one from a point to an open base. In flight this prevents excessive if not all noticeable yaw. You will note that unlike Rimfires, Most of the higher end bullets for centerfires are hollow point. Regarding transonic flight, as a general rule of thumb there is some accuracy to that statement. Transonic flight ~1200 fps induces turbulence/yaw that the usual shape and weight of rimfire bullets are susceptible to. Some rounds do better than others at making the transition to sub-sonic flight therefore the 'general rule'. |
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Post by randyt on Jul 28, 2012 4:50:45 GMT -7
Does extreme cold weather effect the power of a loaded cartridge on firing?
extreme cold weather for me would be no lower than 40 below zero.
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Post by Cwi555 on Jul 28, 2012 5:28:49 GMT -7
Does extreme cold weather effect the power of a loaded cartridge on firing? extreme cold weather for me would be no lower than 40 below zero. Thats a question better answered by our more northern members. My person experience says yes it will but only slightly so. That is subjective so you will need something more definitive. What I can speak to definitively is at -40f, the parts of the firearm are more brittle than they are at say 32f or 68f. If the loads are constant, the firearm will be able to handle that load better at 68f rather than at -40f. |
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Post by thywar on Jul 28, 2012 5:48:53 GMT -7
I don't know for sure if propellant temperature is as relevant in a 'sealed' cartridge but as part of our firing data in the artillery we always had to know the propellant temp (plus 100 other things)
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Post by Cwi555 on Jul 28, 2012 5:54:36 GMT -7
I don't know for sure if propellant temperature is as relevant in a 'sealed' cartridge but as part of our firing data in the artillery we always had to know the propellant temp (plus 100 other things) Logic says it would affect the burn rate. |
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Post by hunter63 on Jul 28, 2012 7:59:51 GMT -7
OK here in one I just heard at a range last Sat....... Guy was shooting .22 hollow point ammo, claimed it was more accurate as the hollow point "makes a hole in the air" so it's less effected by wind. Also, sub sonic .22's are more accurate as they don't break the sound barrier, and suffer from turbulence as it breaks the barrier. Thoughts? I can tell you that the idea of hollow points "making a hole in the air" is bs. It doesn't work that way, if it did, aircraft pitot-static tubes would never work as it would create a 'hole in the air' preventing air travel into the tube. Most of the higher end target rounds are round nosed btw. There is a connection for accuracy when you get to centerfire jacketed bullets. It's primarily due to being able to draw the jacket over the dies from the base to a hollow point vs, drawing one from a point to an open base. In flight this prevents excessive if not all noticeable yaw. You will note that unlike Rimfires, Most of the higher end bullets for centerfires are hollow point. Regarding transonic flight, as a general rule of thumb there is some accuracy to that statement. Transonic flight ~1200 fps induces turbulence/yaw that the usual shape and weight of rimfire bullets are susceptible to. Some rounds do better than others at making the transition to sub-sonic flight therefore the 'general rule'. Thanks..... Myth....Old white beard guys hanging around the range every week end, always know what they are talking about........LOL |
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Post by hunter63 on Jul 28, 2012 8:10:33 GMT -7
Does extreme cold weather effect the power of a loaded cartridge on firing? extreme cold weather for me would be no lower than 40 below zero. My experience is that cold weather means you are shaking more at the range, making it harder to be accurate. How ever, while hunting this doesn't seem to enter into it. |
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Post by thywar on Jul 28, 2012 8:56:47 GMT -7
Hmmm I guess it depends on how many points as to whether I'm shaking or not.. ;p
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Post by swamprat1 on Jul 28, 2012 15:27:39 GMT -7
I know in the us army sniper manual it talks about difference in temp. From rounds sitting in shade and sitting in sun. I'm not home now. It I can check it out tonight.
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Post by alex on Jul 28, 2012 20:42:13 GMT -7
Burn rates are affected by temperature. Think of it like this...does hot gasoline vapor produce a higher fire ball than chilled gasoline?...the answer is yes. Hot vapors expand more rapidly due to increased surface area and oxygen concentration...where as chilled vapors are the opposite. I am very fortunate that in my area the ambient temps are very seldom below freezing and when so, for only brief (3-4 days) periods of time....where I do fall victim to temps is high temps...summers get in the triple digits thus increasing the ambient bore temp and ammo temp in my firearms. tell ya what...take an accurate rifle....from a hot truck/car into an indoor climate controlled range....fire the first ten rounds from ammo that was stored in said truck/car and then fire 10 rounds from ammo that was stored in the indoor climate controlled range and see the difference yourself.
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