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Post by pathwinder14 on Oct 1, 2012 13:48:24 GMT -7
So you have guns and ammo. Beyond that, how does military strategy play into your preparations? Do you have fast and quiet ways to get out of your city? Is your BOL defensible? Do you know how to set booby traps? What kind of silent communications do you have? Can you bug out silently? What kind of immediate criminal threats would you face in SHTF?
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Post by xwing on Oct 1, 2012 16:28:21 GMT -7
Yes , yes and yes.....anymore than that and I'll have to elliminate you for knowing to much  Seriously ...I understand what your asking but not gonna post it publicly.....if you want to know i IM you |
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Post by Redneckidokie on Oct 2, 2012 3:34:00 GMT -7
Most of the areas are covered. The getting out fast and quiet?, depends on if it is before hand or during or after the "reason" to leave. My village has choke points on all sides, so if a person is not vigilant and gets out early...?, then it will be a cross country run on foot. That pretty much eliminates 'quiet' travel with a group, you will have to contend with battle rattle and un disciplined noise.
Not every one is close by. Some will be coming in waves as they can make it, (IF they make it)
The main criminal threat I see is either road blocks Mil/LEO, and unprepared, panicking and looking to get any thing they can, by any means possible.
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 2, 2012 6:57:28 GMT -7
So you have guns and ammo. Beyond that, how does military strategy play into your preparations? Do you have fast and quiet ways to get out of your city? Is your BOL defensible? Do you know how to set booby traps? What kind of silent communications do you have? Can you bug out silently? What kind of immediate criminal threats would you face in SHTF? - Beyond that, how does military strategy play into your preparations?
It has always been my opinion that basing preparations on military strategy is a mistake. While it will play a role, it is not a lead role.
The point is to survive, not fight a war. All too often the focus is on arms and ammunition, when it should be on a holistic strategy, that includes all aspects of survival, rather than a singularity of violence.
People new to survivalist/prepper activities more often get turned onto it through a fear of some future condition that may threaten the well being of them or their families. The knee jerk reaction for many is to arm themselves to the teeth. That is a mistake in my opinion. If they are fighting, it should be by necessity rather than choice.
Having said that, and as mentioned above, it does play a role. That role should primarily focus on defensive measures, and or guerrilla warfare/PSYOP’s rather than traditional tactics. If and when the situation turns into a war in the classical sense, then standard military tactics would apply.
- Do you have fast and quiet ways to get out of your city?
We do not live in the city. The only occasion where any of us would be in a city is on temporary business. Each of us train for that scenario, but as a group, no.
- Is your BOL defensible?
Short of a bunker buster, yes.
- Do you know how to set booby traps?
No comment
- What kind of silent communications do you have?
Multiple variants. Many of which it would not be very bright to speak of.
- Can you bug out silently?
Yes, you could say silently, and depending on your frame of reference, invisibly.
- What kind of immediate criminal threats would you face in SHTF?
The only thing keeping the criminally minded at bay is the law and fear of going to jail. Where no law exist, there will inexorably be lawlessness and chaos. Therefore we expect what would be considered ‘criminal’ activity to be rampant in such times. Many people make the mistake of judging that manner of behavior from current criminal events. What they fail to realize is that there are 10 fold the number of criminals for every known criminal out there. These people have the thoughts and traits of a criminal but in an ordered society, they play along like a good little citizen. Ask yourself what you think these wolves in sheep skins are going to do when the law is nowhere to be found? Take a good look into the eyes of those you meet. I suspect you’ll be shocked at what you see if your eyes are open to see.
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Post by xwing on Oct 2, 2012 16:13:48 GMT -7
...stay hid, stay remote, stay quite, set sentries...kill anyone entering your perimeter.....especially in-laws... |
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Post by geauxfish on Oct 3, 2012 7:13:51 GMT -7
For my situation, military tactics would not be my first choice for bugging out of the urban setting where we live. I think stealth (or blending in) would work better for us initially. We definitely have some issues with natural constraints (river and marshlands) that will complicate things.
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Post by Rock on Oct 3, 2012 8:25:48 GMT -7
I would add: Silent signals don't always work best in all conditions, so learning to use "normal" sounds as signals is valuable. Think about sounds that carry far (or only near), where they came from and if they would be out of place under various circumstances. Don't forget about how domestic and wild animals and birds react to certain things and use that knowledge as a tool. Another very simple, but potentially valuable thing to know is how to quickly make a time delayed noise to send a loud signal - after you've moved elsewhere. None of the above takes special skills - just a willingness to think it through and activate a simple system that is easy to remember. Common sense and simplicity are paramount in order to become universal for your family or group of people. +1 |
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Post by WILL on Oct 3, 2012 9:05:42 GMT -7
So you have guns and ammo. Beyond that, how does military strategy play into your preparations? Do you have fast and quiet ways to get out of your city? Is your BOL defensible? Do you know how to set booby traps? What kind of silent communications do you have? Can you bug out silently? What kind of immediate criminal threats would you face in SHTF? I don't think combat is likely to occur in a conventional force on force military fashion come TEOTWAWKI, but alot depends on the circumstances of the event. Just like right now though, most bad guys won’t try to victimize someone unless they feel they have an obvious advantage and are likely to be successful. As a result, I suspect alot of survivalists will meet their end as a result of murder. Examples being a snub nosed .38 to the back of the head from a young refugee lady they took in, or a sniper round on an otherwise quiet day, sent from a neighbor who suspects you have food. When force on force does happen it will probably be reminiscent of the Comanche Indian raids on the frontier settlers. Middle of the night, not much warning to prepare, you’re outnumbered 5 to 1. If they can’t beat you and take your stuff, they will burn you out and destroy it. To the first situation, other than limiting human interaction, listening to your inner voice and taking universal precautions, there ain’t much you can do about it. If it’s your time, it’s your time. By taking universal precautions, I mean wearing body armor and being armed when entering dangerous situations, having a plan for dealing with strangers on the road or entering your AO and keeping your guard up. As for the second situation, I’ll be honest; I have no real plan right now. Come TSHTF, I would have to make fighting positions, create a century duty and develop signals. Since it’s just me and my immediate family right now, my ability to defend is not so good. Depending on how the situation develops, I may or may not have more bodies around to help out. Of course that’s a double edged sword because the more people involved the more people that need food. I don’t have enough food to feed an army and don’t know any survivalists willing to leave their home to come protect mine. |
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Post by thywar on Oct 3, 2012 10:44:34 GMT -7
Will, you make some good points. I know I might be alone where I am as some may not be able to make it here. I do what I can with what I have and try to learn and prepare as much as possible. That's my strategy. I will do all I can to protect myself, family(if they're here) and my home and provisions. Nobody gets to come and stay unless they've been stripped searched and quarantined for a while. I can't take that chance of being shot in the back of the head.. the sniper.. well heck.. if he can shoot up hill at a great distance then there just ain't much to do about that.. I've always believed anyone can be killed at anytime if that person is determined enough to do it.. I mean Reagan got shot surrounded by secret service and those guys are good.. real good.
So while I'll do everything I can it will be what it is and I'll deal with it as it happens..
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Post by xwing on Oct 3, 2012 11:34:13 GMT -7
Will, you make some good points. I know I might be alone where I am as some may not be able to make it here. I do what I can with what I have and try to learn and prepare as much as possible. That's my strategy. I will do all I can to protect myself, family(if they're here) and my home and provisions. Nobody gets to come and stay unless they've been stripped searched and quarantined for a while. I can't take that chance of being shot in the back of the head.. the sniper.. well heck.. if he can shoot up hill at a great distance then there just ain't much to do about that.. I've always believed anyone can be killed at anytime if that person is determined enough to do it.. I mean Reagan got shot surrounded by secret service and those guys are good.. real good. So while I'll do everything I can it will be what it is and I'll deal with it as it happens.. Smart man |
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Post by pathwinder14 on Oct 4, 2012 9:11:50 GMT -7
Some really great points made by all. I wanted to know wether or not military strategies played into people's plans. I am by no means a nutcake strategiest expecting Big Brother to be watching my every move. I do however, find it useful to keep these thoughts in mind as we gather tools like arms and armor.
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Post by WILL on Oct 4, 2012 10:22:12 GMT -7
Some really great points made by all. I wanted to know wether or not military strategies played into people's plans. I am by no means a nutcake strategiest expecting Big Brother to be watching my every move. I do however, find it useful to keep these thoughts in mind as we gather tools like arms and armor. The military taught me all kinds of stuff that may come in handy. Simple things like light & noise discipline, weapons maintenance, and basic marksmanship through to more advanced tasks such as setting fields of fire, ambush techniques, hide builds, building clearing, an abbreviated SERE course, heavy equipment operations, ect. It could come in handy, but again, I envision TSHTF fighting will probably be more akin to criminal robbery attempts than force on force fighting. The worst case scenario, and closest to actual combat being a short warning that 20+/- people are headed my way, and it doesn't look like a Girl Scout bake sale. |
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Post by woodyz on Oct 4, 2012 12:41:39 GMT -7
I think there is a context/definition issue with what is and is not “Military strategy/tactics” .
In my experience evasion, escape and survival are my tactics.
If I need to bug out, I want to know that I have that need with as much lead time as possible. So staying out of sight, and using tactics such as posting sentries and setting trip wires are in my strategy.
Knowing where to go before I have to is strategy, making certain specific “pinch points” or ambush sites ahead of time and having an existing plan on when and how to use them is tactical.
My military experience was sneak and peak. If I had to engage then the mission was a failure. Going somewhere, obtaining information and leaving undetected was a successful mission. Most times after I figured out what was going on, I didn’t even carry a rifle on my missions. If I needed a rifle I wasn’t going to need it long. I had very little ammo, no backup would be coming and no air support was possible. Unless I remained undetected I was dead.
I envision SHTF to be similar in the beginning. Remaining undetected for as long as possible is the strategy. There needs to be an exit strategy, with preplanned routes. If you are being pursued you need to have preplanned ambush sites to take the pressure off of the main group.
I don’t see out and out combat situations in the beginning. Not being a target and being prepared with a plan is the most important tactic. Shooting situations will occur either as ambushes or accidental incidents.
Understanding and assigning fields of fire and a structured retreat need to be learned before they need to be used.
The longer the situation goes the more the chance for organized gangs forming and attacks on defended positions exist.
Once you reach that point retreat becomes less of an option. Staying unseen remains important but if you are going to stay in one location for any length of time it will become impossible to not be noticed. Not allowing anyone into your main area, not giving away your group size or capabilities becomes important.
If you intend to defend a specific location you are going to have to understand strategy and tactics. Call them military or survival they are the same. Establishing defense positions, fields of fire, pinch points and layers of security will make a difference between living and dying.
Once I am encamped If a group of people were to arrive on my perimeter I am going to make it plain as soon as possible that they are welcome to stay and rest, I am going to offer them a specific camp site with good water and good concealment. A campsite I control. I am going to make it clear that they are not to cross a specific line and that they need to be gone in X number of days. At four AM on the third day I am going to attempt to kill anyone still there. That will be my strategy. Stay away from “Walton Mt. or die”
Just my opinion.
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Post by thywar on Oct 4, 2012 13:11:05 GMT -7
+100 On the Z Man's post.. that is it in a very good post.
''I don’t see out and out combat situations in the beginning. Not being a target and being prepared with a plan is the most important tactic. Shooting situations will occur either as ambushes or accidental incidents.
Understanding and assigning fields of fire and a structured retreat need to be learned before they need to be used.
The longer the situation goes the more the chance for organized gangs forming and attacks on defended positions exist.
Once you reach that point retreat becomes less of an option. Staying unseen remains important but if you are going to stay in one location for any length of time it will become impossible to not be noticed. Not allowing anyone into your main area, not giving away your group size or capabilities becomes important.
If you intend to defend a specific location you are going to have to understand strategy and tactics. Call them military or survival they are the same. Establishing defense positions, fields of fire, pinch points and layers of security will make a difference between living and dying.
Once I am encamped If a group of people were to arrive on my perimeter I am going to make it plain as soon as possible that they are welcome to stay and rest, I am going to offer them a specific camp site with good water and good concealment. A campsite I control. I am going to make it clear that they are not to cross a specific line and that they need to be gone in X number of days. At four AM on the third day I am going to attempt to kill anyone still there. That will be my strategy. Stay away from “Walton Mt. or die”
Just my opinion. '' = WoodyZ
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Post by woodyz on Oct 4, 2012 18:22:19 GMT -7
Thanks for the flowers thwar, it’s just the way I feel. I am not a violent person, at least not in the last 20 years or so. But I firmly believe a show of force and clear intentions will save everyone some grief. I completely agree with the idea once accountability decreases, stupidity increases. I don’t intend to be where the idiots are. But I am not so naïve as to think I may not have to deal with some of them. Not appearing to be a target should be your number one task and I believe it has enabled me to remain non-violent.
Number two should be pre…., pre-plan, pre-train and pre-determine what you are going to do in a given situation, before it happens, waiting to see what will happen will be too late
I don’t allow anyone more than one opportunity at being stupid around me. Most of these idiots are cowards and depend on a pack mentality for their backbone. They are looking for easy targets and when they recognize you will not be an easy target they will look elsewhere. One thing I learned as a Military Policeman is bearing and attitude are worth more than backup. They may know they could win but they also know it is going to cost them to do it. Simple bully mentality, It doesn’t take a bully long to understand that he may be able to beat you up, but it will hurt every time he does.
I don’t intend to fight the army. I can’t beat airplanes and tanks and artillery, but I can attempt to avoid them. Knowing where I intend to go, before I decide to go, knowing what to do before I need to do it, just makes sense to me.
Talking about guns and ammo and tactics is like playing cowboys and Indians as a kid, because it’s fun and it’s interesting. But it doesn’t consume me and it gets less than 20% of my time my money and my energy.
Rereading my Walton Mt comment made me think I should say something about terrain. Never camp on top, always stay below the ridgeline. But holding the higher ground has it’s advantages and It’s harder to fight uphill. However remember staying below the ridgeline can create a blind spot to the rear. Rather than put a bigger burden on sentries I look for a lake or long open valley to the rear. It is a lot easier and takes less people to watch a lake or otherwise open area than it does to watch woods.
But there are two things to remember about that type of location. Don’t cut off your own retreat and protect your retreat as well as you do your access. If you do have a body of water below you, take extra precautions with sanitation. Don’t establish a latrine that flows or drains into your water supply.
For me defending a hill is best accomplished with your people in a “V” formation and pre-established fields of fire. But if I have green troops I’m going to stay with an oblique formation to avoid friendly fire to my rear. One thing about friendly fire ………. It ain’t friendly.
Just two more cents from me, take it for what it’s worth.
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