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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 7, 2012 10:39:56 GMT -7
When I was growing up, we always kept a bucket of coal by the fireplace. It was used to help start the fire, as well as, make it a hotter fire and, I think, burn longer. It did save you from burning as much wood. When the fire started to die down, you would throw on a couple pieces of coal and stoke it up! No need for any special type of stove. Did you read cwi555's post,or did I read it wrong? Also how do you use coal to help get a fire going ? coal is much harder to lite then wood. It didn't make any difference in the old school pot belly stoves. Sometimes you had to change the pipe, or the base, but as a rule of thumb, the old ones were cast iron and could burn either. The epa stepped in several times over the last 30 years mandating changes to the point that you had to have a purpose built unit to maintain compliance with the latest regulations. From time to time, the epa also recruited and worked with NFPA. www.nfpa.org/categoryList.asp?categoryID=124&URL=Codes%20and%20StandardsDepending on what country your in (including this one) it's now illegal to manufacture the old style stoves, but you can get some purpose built dual use units. From a practical standpoint, it's a matter of effluence and heat. Effluence being the gases put off by whatever it is your burning. sulfur dioxide being of primary concern with coal. It is not something you want to back up into your house. As long as you keep your system clean and it's built right, it should not be a problem. firewoodresource.com/firewood-btu-ratings/ Heat is the primary problem. You will note only one wood out of those listed that exceed 35mbtu at 36.6m btu per cord at a dry weight of 4,800 pounds (2.3 tons). Now look at the heat/energy density of coal www.engineeringtoolbox.com/coal-heating-values-d_1675.htmlRemember it is in terms of pounds, not tons as is wood. Low-volatile bituminous has the max output at 14,340btu per pound. So to give a direct equivalence to wood... That,s 68,832,000 million btu per LVB coal, vs 36,600,000 per cord of dry live oak. That is ~1.9:1 or nearly double the energy density. At nearly double the heat density, the thinner modern wood stoves would run the risk of literally melting or warping into an unsafe condition. Also understand the difference in an apples to apples storage comparison. You will use less than half the space for a given period of heating time for coal. |
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Post by Lawdog2705 on Oct 7, 2012 10:59:14 GMT -7
[quote author=cwi555 board=fire thread=2630 post=29730 time=1349631596[/quote]From a practical standpoint, it's a matter of effluence and heat. Effluence being the gases put off by whatever it is your burning. sulfur dioxide being of primary concern with coal. It is not something you want to back up into your house. As long as you keep your system clean and it's built right, it should not be a problem.[/quote] Ok cwi, you're showing my age!!!  As for the gases, that's probably why there was a window close by that was slightly opened. Didn't think about that until you mentioned gases. offtrail...when the fire was being lit, the coal was placed under a grate holding the firewood, along with newspaper and fatlighter. |
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Post by offtrail on Oct 7, 2012 12:41:33 GMT -7
Learning a lot here and enjoying it. I was out squirrel hunting today, didn't get any but found two metal pails and a chunk of coal. I'm going to experiment with the coal to see if it can be used in a fire kit some how.
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Post by Lawdog2705 on Oct 7, 2012 13:19:24 GMT -7
Learning a lot here and enjoying it. I was out squirrel hunting today, didn't get any but found two metal pails and a chunk of coal. I'm going to experiment with the coal to see if it can be used in a fire kit some how. Another thing I just remembered (it has been a long time), if you were out of fat lighter (not the norm) you could sprinkle the newspaper and coal with a little kerosene...I know, doesn't sound too safe but, hey, this was when I was youngster. The kerosene was kept in a small kettle with (my best description)...think of a large match stick head attached to a brass stick. This was kept in the kettle with a lid and small knotch for the "match stick" to hold it in place inside the kettle, until time to prepare the fire. You didn't use the kerosene match stick to light the fire, at least we didn't but, it was good for sprinkling on a little to help speed things up. I haven't seen this done since I was a child, that's why things are coming back to me slowly! So, there was a combination of coal and kerosene at times...another reason to keep the window cracked! |
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Post by garret on Oct 7, 2012 21:27:38 GMT -7
having lived with coal fires pretty much all my life i can tell you that what you need to get coal burning is paper, kindling sticks and a good draw.
all our coal fires were the open type and the best draw you could get was with the vent open at the bottom of the grill and a sheet of paper across the main opening of the fire, on a good day it would almost be like a blast furnace but on dead calm days they can be a bugger to light
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Post by offtrail on Oct 7, 2012 22:09:01 GMT -7
Learning a lot here and enjoying it. I was out squirrel hunting today, didn't get any but found two metal pails and a chunk of coal. I'm going to experiment with the coal to see if it can be used in a fire kit some how. Another thing I just remembered (it has been a long time), if you were out of fat lighter (not the norm) you could sprinkle the newspaper and coal with a little kerosene...I know, doesn't sound too safe but, hey, this was when I was youngster. The kerosene was kept in a small kettle with (my best description)...think of a large match stick head attached to a brass stick. This was kept in the kettle with a lid and small knotch for the "match stick" to hold it in place inside the kettle, until time to prepare the fire. You didn't use the kerosene match stick to light the fire, at least we didn't but, it was good for sprinkling on a little to help speed things up. I haven't seen this done since I was a child, that's why things are coming back to me slowly! So, there was a combination of coal and kerosene at times...another reason to keep the window cracked! Thanks for sharing  |
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Post by cajunlady87 on Oct 9, 2012 4:39:18 GMT -7
Interesting read OT, thanks for posting. Nope, no coal in my area either.
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Post by missasip on Oct 9, 2012 8:43:54 GMT -7
When I was growing up, we always kept a bucket of coal by the fireplace. It was used to help start the fire, as well as, make it a hotter fire and, I think, burn longer. It did save you from burning as much wood. When the fire started to die down, you would throw on a couple pieces of coal and stoke it up! No need for any special type of stove. Did you read cwi555's post,or did I read it wrong? Also how do you use coal to help get a fire going ? coal is much harder to lite then wood. Not in a dust form. In fact I wanted to make sure everyone who wants to try and use coal, make sure it is dust free when you bring it in. Coal dust is explosive and as flammable as gasoline vapors. Coal is also very dirty to burn, you will soot up your flues much faster. You will need to clean them more often, as they will form what is called "klinkers". It is not like cresote, as it just stops up the flue. Coal is not all created equal. Some is more pure than other, but still has many other elements in it. These mixed in elements are usually metals. As the coal burns the metals in trace amounts go up with the smoke and attach themselves to the insides of the flue. They can, if not cleaned and removed regularly, stop up a flue. First 3 1/2 years working for my company, was spent at Plant Jack Watson. Klinkers are a big PITA in a boiler and flue system. Jimmy |
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 9, 2012 10:48:59 GMT -7
Another good point. On a side note, I had two ribs broken by a clinker at the cumberland steam plant. Did you read cwi555's post,or did I read it wrong? Also how do you use coal to help get a fire going ? coal is much harder to lite then wood. Not in a dust form. In fact I wanted to make sure everyone who wants to try and use coal, make sure it is dust free when you bring it in. Coal dust is explosive and as flammable as gasoline vapors. Coal is also very dirty to burn, you will soot up your flues much faster. You will need to clean them more often, as they will form what is called "klinkers". It is not like cresote, as it just stops up the flue. Coal is not all created equal. Some is more pure than other, but still has many other elements in it. These mixed in elements are usually metals. As the coal burns the metals in trace amounts go up with the smoke and attach themselves to the insides of the flue. They can, if not cleaned and removed regularly, stop up a flue. First 3 1/2 years working for my company, was spent at Plant Jack Watson. Klinkers are a big PITA in a boiler and flue system. Jimmy |
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Post by wy21lmb on Aug 31, 2013 19:48:09 GMT -7
I live on the edge of the Powder River Basin. Dozens of sub-bituminous coal mines there. Seems like a coal train or empty comes through town on the average of about every 20 minutes. Also seems like every winter, even in this small town, there are several house fires related to wood and/or coal stoves, mainly from the usual reasons, but every year or two there is one fire that was caused by someone trying to burn coal in their wood burning unit. I know one guy that started his house on fire because he took coke home from the cat unit reactor at the oil refinery and burned it in his coal stove. Same result, it burned too hot for the metallurgy and design of the heating system itself and the flue. I have been told that ‘back in the old days’ many wood burning units, from pot belly stoves to automatic stoker units, were just built to a better standard because the manufacturers knew people would burn whatever they could find. My mother tells of how she and her brothers earned admission to the movie theater by finding an old car tire for the theater owner to burn in his boiler during the Great Depression. They also scavenged coal off the railroad tracks on their way to and from school -- that is how they heated the house, when they had enough heat.
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Post by woodyz on Aug 31, 2013 20:47:57 GMT -7
Very interesting site, thanks for sharing.
When we moved from TX to KY I was surprised to see the road cut through coal seams, some several feet thick. I read up on it and we stopped many times to show the kids and talk about how you could see the different layers and how the ground was obviously pushed upward at that point. I was told it wasn't enough for a coal company to worry with, but I always stopped and picked some up from time to time and used it in fires at deer camp and such. I carry a bucket back to SC when I make a trip, just to burn some in the fire place once in a while, not a lot and never just coal, but I like to watch the way the fire licks at it, different from wood although I don't know exactly how to explain it.
It really isn't hard to get to burn and it does burn much hotter. I guess its like the fire breaks it into a gas and the gas is what burns. I guess someone smarter on the subject can explain it better.
Then when I lived on the TN VA border I got to see the mountain top removal first hand. I have to say I hate what it has done to the view and environment of the country side, I think it is terrible but it is the practice and if it wasn't for coal we never would have had the industrial revolution that put our country far ahead of others. The reclamation efforts may be what is legal but they are a sorry state to me.
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Post by Pennsylvania Mike on Sept 1, 2013 11:34:02 GMT -7
When I bought my second home it had a chimney but no wood heater in the basement. I went to a local dealer of Shenandoah wood burners and purchased a coal/wood burner, it was shaped like metal drum with legs and a lid on top. I burned a lot of wood and coal on that stove, it was not air tide, but it had an auto damper, and it was brick lined and it had a small door on the bottom to remove the ashes. It is not made any longer but found some information here: www.wood-stove.org/shenandoah-wood-stove.html It was a nice stove, specially when the power would go out during the winter. I used to start the stove on wood and when I had a nice bed of coal I would put some coal in it from a 100lb bag. |
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