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Post by mud on Nov 25, 2017 7:37:04 GMT -7
Every year that we don't have a collapse or EMP or North Korean invasion, we get older. I am pushing 50 myself and I know several here are older. I am not in great shape even though I picked up mountain biking this year and it has helped a ton but riding a bike is not humping a ruck sack cross country to escape or to get home.
We now have enough bikes to haul us and our gear and I do ride with a couple different packs up to 20 lbs. on pretty rough trails. That said I have some growing concerns.
What weapons and how much ammo to A.) get to a safe/more safe area B.) bug out forever and head for the hills to start a new life somewhere else What clothing would you pack and do you realize how much it weighs and how much space it takes up? If you are leaving in the summer, would you be packing winter clothing and a coat? Blankets, sleeping bags, coats, tents, tarps, water filters, they all take up space and increase weight but damned if I want to spend a rainy cold night trying to improvise a shelter when I have a tarp, waterproof bivy and sleeping bag available to me. So what do you sacrifice instead? I think much of this has to do with our psychology. I have been researching and watching some videos on being comfortable in uncomfortable situations. Like what they do to the navy seal candidates. I really think what we WANT to take is far more than what we actually need and our current comfort status of warm beds and countless items we have at hand or could have in a day or two with the push of a button has most definitely put us in the normalcy bias category. We would all like the choice of having various guns for various chores but there is always a compromise in what we have to choose to carry with us. I guess what I'm saying is no matter what we decide to pack, it is a compromise, but how many of those items are truly needed and how many are a cushion for 'just in case' because I don't have the skills to do it any other way. How long will it take to be acclimated to the new standard of living? What tools would you choose that you could realistically carry for long marches? My bags have evolved since my journey began but I keep going back to mountain men. Those guys had a bedroll, limited ammo, maybe 3 bladed tools (skinning knife, large knife and hatchet or axe)a bag of jerky, some cordage and maybe an awl or other sewing item and a water skin. Granted most of those guys died before they reached even my age but the lesson is there. They had the skills to procure what they needed as they moved. I think much depends on what actually happens. If it were something like a pandemic, with lots of people dead there would be lots of salvage to use much like they do on TWD. Nuclear attack? I honestly have no idea Invasion? would depend on how close the battles were Civil unrest? Crashing economy? Civil war? I think there are too many variables to plan for everything but maybe we can compile a list of what each of us would consider must haves and from there maybe we can take a better look at what skills we lack to make up for those comfort items. E.G. I think if 9/10 of you said a hatchet is one thing you would not go without I might consider trading out my machete. We could do this with each type of bag, EDC, GHB, BOB, INCH, whatever. For most hiking now I prefer my A.L.I.C.E. pistol belt with harness but I may upgrade the belt with a battle belt just for better load distribution. So once again, I am searching for a new approach to building a realistic set of bags that will function independently as well as compliment each other, but this time I am trying to factor in some things like age, ability, transport etc.. So think about it and share your thoughts and ideas.
~Mud
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Post by cajunlady87 on Nov 25, 2017 8:17:15 GMT -7
Well, my first thought is if you want to live in the lap of luxury so to speak, invest in bicycle trailers and back packs for each biker in your group. Check out newspaper ads and thrift stores for deals. Lucked out, got mine at Goodwill for $20 in excellent condition and already put together. You can also add saddlebags and baskets to each bike to carry items.
If I think of other tips I will post them.
Oh yea, check out the loads the Vietnamese carried on their bikes while traveling the Ho Chi Minh trail. It is amazing.
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Post by solargeek1 on Nov 25, 2017 8:43:38 GMT -7
Mud,
I think as we have aged we realized we simply cannot and will not bug out. We built this last house in a special way for that reason, we have other places on the property that if life really gets scary we could throw up more hidden shelters to ride it out, and we do alot of praying. (seriously).
FOOD: That being said, my thoughts remain that certain food items work and many of what they tell you, don't, based on weight and how much water they take to use. We invested in large #10- cans of of flash freeze dried fruit. My gosh, that stuff is great right out of the can, in baked goods, in anything with some water added, in oatmeal or any cereal etc. And it weighs nothing once you take it out of the can. Good for MONTHS out of the can in say a double ziploc bag.
Same goes for the for the freeze dried vegetables. And very little water is needed. I think we got it all on sale from Emergency Essentials. And still a big part of our emergency supplies. Mountain House was good but pricey and also VERY salty. Which makes the requirement of water so much greater.
We stocked our pond with edible fish. Shockingly expensive but self supporting once you get it going. Our solar runs the aerators.
SECURITY: So, in my mind you can never have enough ammo. Period. But with every certificate we got for using our Gander Mountain CC before they went under, we bought it. So we just keep buying and hope we have enough. Weight and knives: I use my EDC every day constantly from Paul Moore (ST - Beowulf? Think that was his name) that I won on BCUSA or ST. I also use the big red knife from Crash (not sure what you call it but about 11" long) all the time and especially when hacking in the garden at large hard stems like the brussel sprouts. I also won a Bark River knife and use that where I fear for Crash's knife getting less pretty. I NEVER use my SOG Hawk. I won that in a donation thing from Unswydd but it is just too heavy. All the other knives I would take/keep. The SOG I should sell.
House: Boarding up the windows has been nagging at me. Our doors would take a lot of time to get through (even with shooting them), but windows are necessary for passive solar to work and so we have lots on the south side and they are big. I had wanted those roll down hurricane shutters but they were outrageously expensive. The smaller sets (4) on the front of the house could use plywood sheets. I have thought of a "garage door" over each of the 2 big windows -12'x7'. As things progress to the dark side we would have to have one of our carpenter friends come build out the windows to host the garage doors on both the sides and bottom of the window sets. It would be incredibly ugly but.... Still wish we could have afforded those hurricane shutters as they are metal and really hard to break through.
PERIMETER: We have cleared(or it was clear as in our pond) about 7 acres and the woods near the house are sparse enought that it would be tough to hide in them near us. But DH's wood to be cut would provide an nasty some shelter. He is cutting/splitting/stacking it against the pole barn so then will be wide open and safer. I plan on getting driveway alarms and a gate at the end of the driveway to prevent stupid drive-ins. But DH must get more security minded. He just goes out, saying 'hey' without being armed or anything when the 1-2x per year odd ball comes up our 1000' driveway (hard to mistake us as a public place!)
IF we had to bug out, we now have friends we can trust up here. We live far from any major town other than "mad town, WI" and have many on scanners (then I can read on FB!), locals who are really tuned in and of our thought process. Our girls are just too far away for us to solve; it is on their DH's and them to get here. Ok I know this was not exactly on what you were discussing but we have put years and thought and prayers into how to do homesteading better, security better and just to have peace of mind.
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Post by Cwi555 on Nov 25, 2017 12:59:09 GMT -7
It's not if a collapse will happen, it's when and how. History is riddled with these cycles, and as such, it's a fools errand to think it can't happen here.
It is in my opinion wrong minded to prepare for myself and as such, I never have. The focus for me has always been preparing for future generations as it has been for several generations of my family. My cards have been dealt and played, soon enough I will be no more. They will live on if I've done my best to prepare for them. That is as basic as it gets.
If it were just me and only me, I couldn't see the point of prepping at all.
Every plan is as flexible as it could be made as I have no crystal ball to see what the next generation will have to live through. Bug out, bug in, or a hybrid shift, it's all developed around giving them the best chance at survival that I can.
It is in my opinion a clarifying mind set that paints the road for you.
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Post by woodyz on Nov 25, 2017 13:18:02 GMT -7
Bug in or bug out? The first choice to be made when considering SHTF. I consider a third choice, retreat. Bugging out, because I don’t plan to stay here. But bugging in because I do plan on staying at the retreat. That doesn’t mean I have ignored the “slim” possibility I might get stuck here longer than I plan to and will need supplies and defensive measures here. The retreat is located and built for bugging in. All of the supplies Mud mentioned and more are there. It’s 26 miles from here. And while 26 miles could be a great distance and an impossible trip to make in some locations, I don’t think it is here. Only 3 miles of the 26 is on “the beaten path” where there might be a chance of running into a mob. The rest is back roads and through National Forest land. For my plan, the key is the railroad. It runs the entire 26 miles, mostly through woods and I can start using it any where along the line, or not use it at all. So I have the river I can follow on one side, the railroad on the other and back roads down the middle. That means if I am not leading the “group” any of them can get there as long as they don’t cross the river or the railroad they won’t get lost in the woods . Second, was to determine how far an individual could walk in one day carrying what they needed to in food, water, camp and defense. The plan allows for 25# and just 3 miles. Every 3 miles there is a cache with additional water/food/etc. and a map of where they are. Not a map to where they are going, but of where they are with selected camp site, lines of defense, etc. Every cache has a supply of 9mm, .22 and 12 ga. Every other cache has a 9mm hi-point and 4 loaded magazines. The road and railroad have “signs”, finding a cache involves a “sign” and some simple math. For example: On the backside of a specific sign are 3 nickels/dimes/quarters, or some combination, JB welded or bolted in a pattern. Meaning you take 5/10/25 yards following the pattern and you find a cache. What if the coins fall off or someone removes them? After they are in place black spray paint over them and the size and pattern will still be there. And the pattern may be reversed or scrambled in some way based on the sign they were attached to. CajunLady talked about a buying a bike cart. It’s pretty easy to make one using bike wheels and a piece of all thread for an axle. Or you can step that up and just use the rims from a wide tire motorcycle and build the axel with the all thread inside a pipe and fit it to the rails on the tracks. Ho Chi Minh Trail www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1875.htmlupload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Ho_chi_minh_trail.jpgen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh_trailhistoriana.eu/assets/uploads/Bicycle_on_Ho_Chi_Minh_trail.jpgThe whole purpose of my trips into Laos and Cambodia was to identify traffic and targets for bombing or to evaluate the results of bombing on the Ho Chi Minh Mud my pack is two butt packs and two water bottles on a molle battle belt supported with an “H” harness + two drop leg rigs, the right side a pistol and magazines, the left a FAK and water. The H harness is molle and has two straps up high on my back so I can carry a shotgun or rifle along my spine and get it out without removing the rig. That also allows for a cross draw pistol on the belt and my knife on my left upper chest. The whole rig stays “loaded” and I can just step into it, pick up the rifle or shotgun and be gone. The weight is distributed great and as long as I don’t have to go too fast I can still carry it awhile. All one can do is the best they can based off a plan they can accomplish with what they have. Once you have a plan in place and know you can follow it, make another plan as an alternative, then make a third. Redundancy and consistency are the keys to success right behind the will. You have to have the will to do whatever it takes to survive, once you have that the rest will follow.
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Post by woodyz on Nov 25, 2017 13:23:07 GMT -7
Yes CWI the plans and supplies are not for me. They are for my offspring and group. As you say to give them that extra chance at survival when they need it. I stopped prepping for me years ago. Now my skills and focus is on teaching and leaving behind the skill sets I learned by surviving in my life.
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Post by mud on Nov 25, 2017 14:08:40 GMT -7
Yes, my family is priority. I used individual references for perspective.
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Post by solargeek1 on Nov 25, 2017 18:40:33 GMT -7
Yes, my family is priority. I used individual references for perspective. Same here. Even have the property and house going into a trust so that if there any legal things still existing, they will have a set in place. I did not mean to give the impression that we were doing this for ourselves. We consulted our kids every step of the way. As we built this place, and they start to call it the bunker, ha ha, & agreed with everything we were doing and helped us make decisions. We just have no plan in place for how they will get home as we don't know what disaster we will be confronting. The 2 in Chicago are major hikers and marathoners. They will get here. The two over in Michigan, not actually in shape, but incredibly resourceful. We leave the getting here in God's capable hands.
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Post by mud on Nov 26, 2017 9:08:03 GMT -7
SG, didnt take it like that, I meant to clarify my post only. My kids are still in school and while they are both bright, I have no misconceptions of the depravity of mankind. I can only hope I have sone enough
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Post by geron on Nov 27, 2017 4:20:03 GMT -7
Agreed! The boys and grandkids. Every move I've made is for them. At age 71 I'm done for although in very good health . . . so far.
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