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Post by solargeek1 on Aug 25, 2016 8:38:11 GMT -7
The search function on this site is terrible. I was sure I posted we were adding new solar panels but it will not show up under my name, the specific words, or general headings. So...
Did my "prep" work for the guys turning off all power (so no water either) to turn on the new solar. Hopefully, only for a few hours.
But those who know me, know that I have: both tubs 1/2 full to use bathrooms manually; water in fridge for 2 days; really hot soapy water in both sinks to rinse hands in; all cooking for 2 nights done and cooled in fridge; all tomatoes processed. Will not open fridge or freezers till power back on. They are both packed to preserve the cool.
We are excited to add these panels with the mini-inverters built in as we have a full battery backup system in place 10kW. These will not run "through" the current battery backup system but will stand alone and work whenever the grid is up. (This is of course the simple explanation they gave me). It will maximize what we sell back. You lose some when running a complicated system like ours, and we want to catch and sell it all.
Next year we will add just 3.5 more kW to take us to the max for the current battery backup/outback inverter system but even with those last panels, it will keep us below the 20kW total as that triggers something in our county we don't want - more costs as we are a cooperative and pay $35/mo just for living here and having electricity! Power here is becoming very costly as the whole state (WI) ramps up to collect "operating" costs even where it is not a cooperative. Everyone has now or is getting this "privilege of having power" cost (ranging from $10/mo to our $35/mo) this year. People are screaming but no legislative help.
There will be a few times after the final addition in March and April when our system will be more than the inverters will want to use but it will simply shut down those panels till it can handle it. We have 3 Outbacks.
Now, I think I will go shopping! And perhaps out to lunch and hope all power is on when I get back.
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Post by thywar on Aug 25, 2016 12:46:08 GMT -7
Very cool.
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Post by Cwi555 on Aug 25, 2016 13:09:46 GMT -7
Do you sell enough back to cover cost?
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Post by cajunlady87 on Aug 25, 2016 14:07:55 GMT -7
You are really batting a thousand SG. Great job!!  |
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Post by marc on Sept 2, 2016 8:01:36 GMT -7
Do you sell enough back to cover cost? SG: I was also going to ask how the economics work in your area for a grid tied sell back system. Around here, I see a 13-15 year return on investment without government subsidies of one form or another. And that is based on a steady increase in utility power each year. The micro inverters nowadays are great. For the last six years, our power has been a flat $0.10/kwh, no tiers, no TOU, no demand. I do not know what the sell back rates are around here - but I can assure you it's a fraction of the $0.085/KWH local wholesale cost. I see many systems going in under Power Purchase Agreements that I would never accept. But I'm not against it when it makes sense. My previous employer (before I started my battery business) was Sun Edison - where the 20 year PPA model worked beautifully clear up through 25 MW systems. I really, really love what you guys have achieved with your battery backed system! Marc |
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Post by solargeek1 on Sept 2, 2016 9:24:07 GMT -7
Do you sell enough back to cover cost? SG: I was also going to ask how the economics work in your area for a grid tied sell back system. Around here, I see a 13-15 year return on investment without government subsidies of one form or another. And that is based on a steady increase in utility power each year. The micro inverters nowadays are great. For the last six years, our power has been a flat $0.10/kwh, no tiers, no TOU, no demand. I do not know what the sell back rates are around here - but I can assure you it's a fraction of the $0.085/KWH local wholesale cost. I see many systems going in under Power Purchase Agreements that I would never accept. But I'm not against it when it makes sense. My previous employer (before I started my battery business) was Sun Edison - where the 20 year PPA model worked beautifully clear up through 25 MW systems. I really, really love what you guys have achieved with your battery backed system! Marc First, the good news. I misspoke re the new system not charging the batteries. It does if the grid goes down as it "reads" our inverter as a "grid" and happily hums topping off batteries and feeding the house. Apparently we are 1 of only 3 systems nation-wide with this mix. Marc, sad to say the jury is still out on the new 5.7 kW we added. It is turned off for now. Outback engineers and technicians are getting heavily involved as what our guy did with setting it up was FULLY within the parameters of our system's capabilities and Outback's specs for the charge controllers. BUT there was an ARC (while I was in the basement with the installer) and Poof! 1 very expensive charge controller is toast. We tried to pay part of the cost for a new one as we have used the old 10 kW system for 4 full years but he wouldn't take any $$. My first concern was for HIM as he was right next to it but he was fine. (Last system, same type of unanticipated ARC but it threw the guy off a ladder and across our garage! He was fine too). Outback could not explain why that happened. So, New Outback charge controller installed right away and Tuesday, my power in the house would go out for 2-10 seconds. NOT the "only tied to the grid" Our guy turned the 5.7 off remotely (he lives 2 hours away) and has spent over 5 hours on the phone and computers with Outback working on the solution which he will implement this weekend while we are gone. Hoping this works as promised. Will keep all posted. |
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Post by solargeek1 on Sept 2, 2016 9:39:20 GMT -7
Do you sell enough back to cover cost? CWI, the short answer is yes we will. We analyzed the original system to have a payback of 12.5 years based on then current electric costs -- remember I am in an electric coop so our costs are much higher than elsewhere in WI. Our costs have gone up and our usage is much greater than others expected (I can and we entertain a ton with many staying over so lots of cooking/washing/lighting electrical costs). I told them they were underestimating the load but hey, they did not believe me then. We are 4.3 years into that period. We maximized rebates from the State (paltry under Gov Walker but I still like him) and the tax credits. We broke installation up into 2 different state fiscal years to get the max benefits. We still expect to hit that payback no problem. The new system will basically be paid back within the same time frame (12.5 years from now) if you figure we will now pay off our total electric load. Our house (with the new "s olid gold attic" addition) is over 4000 sq ft. (Recall I wanted a less than 2200 sq ft house but I am married to a "let's build it as big and innovative -- read: expensive! -- as we can"). This is a large space to cool and heat (although we use mostly wood WHEN HOME but that caveat is the kicker as you all know we are gone all the time to be with family/friends). DH"s goal is net zero. (PS the house was paid for when built as are all the solar additions so I just keep telling him, "keep working till you are done here"). We will still be relatively young when the systems are totally 'paid back'. Hopefully, we will still be here when the panels need to be replaced; if not our kids will as it will go to them through a trust. I have to say however, we would not care if they weren't going to 'pay back' and be free. I love having solar PV and hot water. I love not even knowing when the batteries kick in because we have a power outage. We live in the middle of nowhere. The last storm took out 140 trees on just ONE PERSON's property. Everyone around us was out and altho our power did not go out, I didn't have to worry. TO US, solar is like having more ammunition, food preps, and your gas tank topped off. |
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Post by Cwi555 on Sept 2, 2016 10:33:33 GMT -7
As a suggestion, you may wish to put together a generic plan that encapsulates how you did all that and what you did it with. If you could sell something like that, it could offset your cost even more. Just a thought.
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Post by thywar on Sept 2, 2016 11:55:19 GMT -7
As a suggestion, you may wish to put together a generic plan that encapsulates how you did all that and what you did it with. If you could sell something like that, it could offset your cost even more. Just a thought. My guess is, based on the way SG researches, her notes and research could probably go straight to a publisher. While I don't know/understand everything about how the system works it would be some very interesting learning. I think it's great you've done this SG and I agree, it's as valuable (maybe more so) than many primary preps. I'm excited for you. |
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Post by solargeek1 on Sept 2, 2016 13:24:02 GMT -7
As a suggestion, you may wish to put together a generic plan that encapsulates how you did all that and what you did it with. If you could sell something like that, it could offset your cost even more. Just a thought. CWI, very good thought but then the people who read the book/pamphlet would want to contact us and call and email and come see it. HOW do I know this for a fact? We were a "demonstration home" for We Energies in the 2000s. That meant ALL of the above and being on tours. Great loads of people would come and traipse through our green built, solar heated and solar power and water log home. So, while I am happy to share with you guys, Never again will we be that nice. We did it for free all the time, every year. Anyone could call and get the info/tour most any time. |
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Post by solargeek1 on Sept 2, 2016 13:26:49 GMT -7
As a suggestion, you may wish to put together a generic plan that encapsulates how you did all that and what you did it with. If you could sell something like that, it could offset your cost even more. Just a thought. My guess is, based on the way SG researches, her notes and research could probably go straight to a publisher. While I don't know/understand everything about how the system works it would be some very interesting learning. I think it's great you've done this SG and I agree, it's as valuable (maybe more so) than many primary preps. I'm excited for you. TW you are so kind. I do have voluminous notes and a full binder from our solar guy. We are great friends with the 2 sets of solar guys (actually 2 but one retired). They call when they want a free meal, beer, and to visit. I send them off with cases of beer and get homemade honey and maple syrup from the current guy. It is good to know solar people. They are connected to so many different trades and important areas of state governance (if you need to know who to call, ask for help etc.) And they are all engineers and I LOVE engineers having worked with them as a lawyer for over 15 years. |
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Post by Cwi555 on Sept 2, 2016 14:02:02 GMT -7
As a suggestion, you may wish to put together a generic plan that encapsulates how you did all that and what you did it with. If you could sell something like that, it could offset your cost even more. Just a thought. CWI, very good thought but then the people who read the book/pamphlet would want to contact us and call and email and come see it. HOW do I know this for a fact? We were a "demonstration home" for We Energies in the 2000s. That meant ALL of the above and being on tours. Great loads of people would come and traipse through our green built, solar heated and solar power and water log home. So, while I am happy to share with you guys, Never again will we be that nice. We did it for free all the time, every year. Anyone could call and get the info/tour most any time. That was why I framed it in the form of generic plans. A ghost pen if you will. Edit; So you know, I've done just that myself. No one has to know it's you, or where you live. |
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