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Post by offtrail on Dec 27, 2016 20:07:28 GMT -7
Anyhow a few years back i bought some four packs of Bic lighters,thinking they'd make good barter items. The other day i decided to open a pack of four, needed one lighter for some paracord projects I've been doing.Well opened the pack took one and gave it a strike...nothing! Not only was it out of fuel but the dang thing didn't work at all...not even a spark. Grabbed another one and I'll be...it didn't work as well. Out of a four pack only two worked, the two that didn't work had neither fuel or spark. So i have several packs of four and the same thing happened to them...two that worked and two that had neither fuel or spark...what a rip off. No more packs of four for this guy...just one at a time...just letting you all know.
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Post by marc on Dec 27, 2016 20:26:13 GMT -7
A friend of mine had the same experience with Bic's stored indoors in a closet. Almost every single one out of 30 or 40 failed after about 11 or 12 years. But old school Diamond "strike anywhere" matches double/triple dipped in paraffin from in the late 70's still worked. (The wax was standard procedure in my backpacking days and it worked well)
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Post by Cwi555 on Dec 27, 2016 22:26:18 GMT -7
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Post by offtrail on Dec 28, 2016 10:16:45 GMT -7
A friend of mine had the same experience with Bic's stored indoors in a closet. Almost every single one out of 30 or 40 failed after about 11 or 12 years. But old school Diamond "strike anywhere" matches double/triple dipped in paraffin from in the late 70's still worked. (The wax was standard procedure in my backpacking days and it worked well) I did expect the fuel to evaporate over time. What i don't understand is...why no spark? As far as i'm concerned an empty big with good spark is just as good if not better then a ferro rod.But without the spark they are trash...I'm thinking they took the damaged Bic's and stuck them in a value pack just to get rid of them.
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Post by offtrail on Dec 28, 2016 10:21:27 GMT -7
It really wasn't about the lack of fuel, it was more about no spark. Will a flint age over time and not work? I wouldn't be so upset if at least they sparked...but no!
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Post by Cwi555 on Dec 28, 2016 10:54:06 GMT -7
Any metal except gold will oxidize over time. Even gold can under the right conditions. Then there is preferential segregation/corrosion within a metal alloy. Preferential corrosion and or galvanic corrosion can attack specific elements within the alloy leaving it weakened and changing all or part of its properties.
Those lighters don't have an actual 'flint', what's considered the flint is actually a small chunk of misch metal aka fire steel. The specific alloy is along the lines of ferrocerium.
The pyrophoric qualities of ferrocerium makes it spark when the hardened steel striker rolls over it.
Iron has pyrophoric qualities. What prevents iron from spontaneous combustion is the fast oxidation aka iron oxide III that covers it faster than it can combust. With true flint and steel/iron, it isn't the flint catching fire, it's the small shavings of iron/steel the hard flint knocks off when struck. The surface area of those shavings are proportionally larger compared to the source. Under those conditions, the rapid oxidation aka iron oxide III, cannot form fast enough to prevent the spontaneous combustion.
Misch metal sparking is, on a chemical time scale, a chain reaction. One metal, typically ferrite, starts another to burning/oxidizing. Cerium, or other rare earth is typically next in the chain, with quality misch metal ending the chain with trace (2-6%) magnesium.
Weak spark means the rare earth never started, no spark at all means the iron/ferrite never started.
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Post by offtrail on Dec 28, 2016 21:26:58 GMT -7
Any metal except gold will oxidize over time. Even gold can under the right conditions. Then there is preferential segregation/corrosion within a metal alloy. Preferential corrosion and or galvanic corrosion can attack specific elements within the alloy leaving it weakened and changing all or part of its properties. Those lighters don't have an actual 'flint', what's considered the flint is actually a small chunk of misch metal aka fire steel. The specific alloy is along the lines of ferrocerium. The pyrophoric qualities of ferrocerium makes it spark when the hardened steel striker rolls over it. Iron has pyrophoric qualities. What prevents iron from spontaneous combustion is the fast oxidation aka iron oxide III that covers it faster than it can combust. With true flint and steel/iron, it isn't the flint catching fire, it's the small shavings of iron/steel the hard flint knocks off when struck. The surface area of those shavings are proportionally larger compared to the source. Under those conditions, the rapid oxidation aka iron oxide III, cannot form fast enough to prevent the spontaneous combustion. Misch metal sparking is, on a chemical time scale, a chain reaction. One metal, typically ferrite, starts another to burning/oxidizing. Cerium, or other rare earth is typically next in the chain, with quality misch metal ending the chain with trace (2-6%) magnesium. Weak spark means the rare earth never started, no spark at all means the iron/ferrite never started. When i did try to spark the Bic, all it did was puff out a small cloud of smoke but no spark. So the flint in the Bic more or less decays to the point of no longer being usable. Would have thought the flint would last longer then the fluid...appreciate the info...always a class act :-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 10:27:40 GMT -7
im glad that i decided to read this.i took my refillable lighter and put it away for later use,and to cut down on what i carry in my pants pocket.but yet,i continue to save the flints from the bic lighters that run empty after use.i buy the 4-5 packs of bics as well..guess i need to start useing the flints i saved.
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Post by offtrail on Dec 30, 2016 11:50:18 GMT -7
im glad that i decided to read this.i took my refillable lighter and put it away for later use,and to cut down on what i carry in my pants pocket.but yet,i continue to save the flints from the bic lighters that run empty after use.i buy the 4-5 packs of bics as well..guess i need to start useing the flints i saved. I guess we need to put expiration dates on our survival gear / survival kits then rotate.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 7:27:08 GMT -7
that.and i need to see if i can find something to use the flints in,kinda like a long stem lighter.but for sparks only.that way i can use it,with a magnesium fire-starting tool..
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Post by cajunlady87 on Dec 31, 2016 7:38:36 GMT -7
that.and i need to see if i can find something to use the flints in,kinda like a long stem lighter.but for sparks only.that way i can use it,with a magnesium fire-starting tool.. Just leave the flint in the BIC if the wheel still works on the lighter. I pull the flints out of BICS my brother uses and keep them for my ZIPPOS. They are much longer than those sold. JMO
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 8:47:02 GMT -7
thats why i started saving the bic flints many years ago.i use them in my zippos.on account they last longer than the store bought flints is why.pluss i save a lil bit of money that way.
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Post by graf on Dec 31, 2016 9:53:53 GMT -7
I'm still ol school Zippo, modified. Ranger band over the case where it comes together prevents quick evaporation of lighter fluid. In the cotton area where you add fuel I replaced the stuffing with actual cotton balls also store 2 extra flints and a short fire steel in same area. In a pinch I can pull the cotton out and light it with the fire steel
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Post by cajunlady87 on Dec 31, 2016 11:53:21 GMT -7
I'm still ol school Zippo, modified. Ranger band over the case where it comes together prevents quick evaporation of lighter fluid. In the cotton area where you add fuel I replaced the stuffing with actual cotton balls also store 2 extra flints and a short fire steel in same area. In a pinch I can pull the cotton out and light it with the fire steel Great ideas graf. I placed extra flints under the cotton but adding the other items is a definite bonus plus sealed with the range band gives that extra cushion for the fuel not to evaporate as fast.
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