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Post by woodyz on Apr 10, 2018 15:10:05 GMT -7
Ok! As stated I am a 7.62x39 guy. But when I bought my HYDRA's I picked up a couple of 5.56, and I had to build a few, and when the price dropped a few years ago I bought a couple, just because. But I still prefer the 7.62x39, so I sold off all but the two Hydra's,chambered for 5.56, which give me the option of 22/223/556/243/7.62x39/51/308/300bo/50 with just two lowers and two optic sets. And I think I am leaving out something. Change out is under a minute. Gives me the option of using any "found/acquired" rounds, the same controls and hardware. OH! and 9mm.
So here is my question.
Why shoot 5.56 or 223. What I mean is, one instead of the other? I think I know the answer but I want someone better at explaining it to tackle the answer. down range is about the same on paper, not so much for meat but not that big a difference. Cost between one or the other is about .02 when bought in bulk.
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Post by crashdive123 on Apr 11, 2018 3:09:48 GMT -7
Very small difference in chamber size (223 slightly smaller than 5.56). 5.56 rounds are generally a little "hotter". If you shoot 5.56 in your 223 weapon the chamber cannot properly expand which can (will) cause a lot of FTE's and primers blowing out.
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Post by woodyz on Apr 11, 2018 8:47:59 GMT -7
I'm chambered for 5.56 and I just buy 5.56.
But I was looking at buying another 500 rounds and 223 was .02 cheaper per round, .32 vs .30, $10 difference for 500. Not saying there might not be cheaper bulk out there, but I am just staying with "Lake City" and the same weight and load I am zeroed in for.
Maybe I should look at reloading 5.56 and see what my costs would be. Right now I can load 9mm/.243/.308 cheaper than I can buy. While I can buy 12 and 20 ga cheaper than I can load.
Sitting down and loading 1000 rounds of something has kind of a calming and sense of accomplish effect too.
I am just going to stay with buying the 5.56, but know I can shoot the .223 if any "extra" shows up in a SHTF. situation.
But I think I will buy the reloading dies and supplies just so I can load if I decide too. There may be a bigger difference in reload price between the two that would shift me to .223
Does anyone here reload 223/556 and have an idea of cost per round?
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Post by woodyz on Apr 11, 2018 9:01:23 GMT -7
I can still get bulk AK for .22 a round and shoot at least 100 rounds a month (except these last few with my eye)
I can reload 7.62x39 for .15 a round avg. and I like the reloads better. I like all of the reloads I do better than what I can buy. More consistent and I can load for target or meat, solid or HP, hot or sub-sonic.
I only shoot about 30 rounds a month of the AR just to keep on target.
Like anything else I guess. When I was on the USMC pistol team I would shoot 10,000 rounds a month, but when I am paying for the rounds its a lot less shooting. Still, I probably shoot more than most, but less than competition shooters.
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Post by woodyz on Apr 11, 2018 14:34:23 GMT -7
So the RCBS Die Sets cost me $38 each. Turns out I could have used the same set but would have had to readjust from 223 for 556. So I got 2 sets because I don't like to change a die setting when I get it set where I want it.
Ordered some new cases. I am thinking I can use powder I already have, but if not I will get some when I go get primers. Maybe tomorrow.
On another post here I bought .22 rounds for .04 each, a very good price.
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Post by graf on Apr 12, 2018 11:38:58 GMT -7
Some of the earlier AR 15 were caliber specific .223 or 5.56 later they came out and could use either. My DPMS will shoot both calibers without a issue. The 5.56 is more military issue or should say use to be. My SKS shoots 7.62-39 much cheaper to shoot than .223/5.56 almost not worth reloading.
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Post by woodyz on Apr 12, 2018 13:58:54 GMT -7
My only "want to" reason for reloading some calibers I have the ability/supplies to, is so I know how ie; play with the loads and find "my load" and so I can if I ever need to.
Some things like my .243 and .308 I will reload most of what I will shoot. My 7.62 I will reload some sub-sonic, some hunting rounds, etc. But most of what I shoot I will buy bulk ammo. But I still will have stored everything to load most of what I shoot, if I ever had to.
And that is what I am doing buying 223/556 reloading supplies. I don't shoot enough of them to reload a bunch, but if I had to, I could. Plus reloaded bullets/components might be a trade/barter item. I know, I know its a very thin line, but say all my "inherited companions" had the capability to shoot was 223/556. I could set them to reloading what they will shoot and not impact my bulk stock.
Real SHTF, I am going to acquire the ammo I need from dead guys who stored bulk of their own, using a little of the ammo I have stored.
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Post by graf on Apr 12, 2018 17:11:37 GMT -7
I agree great skill to have and practice prior to needing to step up, good on you.
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Post by woodyz on Apr 12, 2018 18:40:41 GMT -7
I got my .243 back around 1985 and I must have loaded 100 different loads to find my "sweet" load for that gun. Once I found the load that worked best in it I just know it will hit where I want it too every time. Its a confidence from hundreds of shots consistently and knowing each round will do the same. I know what to do with that gun and that load from 25 to 250 yards. I made a 420 yard shot one time down hill, but I held at the top of his rack and hit him at he bottom of his shoulder. And the 85g BTHP I shot doesn't need to shoot deer that far away. I don't know what the energy was but I suspect if I had hit the shoulder bone it might not have even broke it.
But in the head or neck at 250 yards its a killer. Although since I left TX I haven't shot but one deer past 200 in SC.
Then I load the 308 as my heavy far off sniper rifle. Not that I am a sniper. I tried, but I could never get consistent past 800 yards. But if my target is at 500 yards and I am using my loads and my rifle, its goodnight Irene. I used to shoot playing cards at 500 yards and the black or red of an ace at 250. These days I can still hit a pie pan 9" at 500 with the 308. But my eyes are failing fast. My 168g BTHP sighted at 500 will raise 20" at 250 and drop 120" at 800.
But my shooting lanes and pinch points at woodyz's retreats are very well known and much practiced at distances and I would hate for me to catch me at any of them.
But we do have a friend who's Son can shoot that red or black ace at 1000 yards and he is own our side in our camp if SHTF.
Thinking about him just now I don't even know what caliber he is shooting these days. Guess I need to find out and make sure I can reload it. Although I am sure he reloads his own, whatever it is, he has since he was about 12.
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Post by marc on Apr 13, 2018 19:00:13 GMT -7
I got my .243 back around 1985 and I must have loaded 100 different loads to find my "sweet" load for that gun. Once I found the load that worked best in it I just know it will hit where I want it too every time. Its a confidence from hundreds of shots consistently and knowing each round will do the same. I know what to do with that gun and that load from 25 to 250 yards. I made a 420 yard shot one time down hill, but I held at the top of his rack and hit him at he bottom of his shoulder. And the 85g BTHP I shot doesn't need to shoot deer that far away. I don't know what the energy was but I suspect if I had hit the shoulder bone it might not have even broke it. But in the head or neck at 250 yards its a killer. Although since I left TX I haven't shot but one deer past 200 in SC. Then I load the 308 as my heavy far off sniper rifle. Not that I am a sniper. I tried, but I could never get consistent past 800 yards. But if my target is at 500 yards and I am using my loads and my rifle, its goodnight Irene. I used to shoot playing cards at 500 yards and the black or red of an ace at 250. These days I can still hit a pie pan 9" at 500 with the 308. But my eyes are failing fast. My 168g BTHP sighted at 500 will raise 20" at 250 and drop 120" at 800. But my shooting lanes and pinch points at woodyz's retreats are very well known and much practiced at distances and I would hate for me to catch me at any of them. But we do have a friend who's Son can shoot that red or black ace at 1000 yards and he is own our side in our camp if SHTF. Thinking about him just now I don't even know what caliber he is shooting these days. Guess I need to find out and make sure I can reload it. Although I am sure he reloads his own, whatever it is, he has since he was about 12. Impressive stuff! I know what kind of equipment and talent it takes to make 1/8 to 1/4 MOA shots at 1,000. I have been fortunate to be able to learn from some very talented long range shooters. In February, I was invited to join a club in the Eustace area where some of the guys shoot very long ramge/ (Folks I knew down in Bastrop made some intros up here for me when I moved North) Some of these guys are serious record holders, so I honestly feel lucky to even be there. Generally, the .338 Lapua and 408 CheyTac are favored out past 800 to 1K. My "tutor" shoots the Lapua out to 1760 yards, but a couple of the guys use the .50 BMG at that range. For me, there is a "wall" at 800 to 1,000. For now, I stick with 5.56/.308/7mag on the 500 yd range at the club in order to keep my ego intact :-) If I get wealthy, I might step up and try to play. If you run with the big dogs, you have to know how to pee in the tall grass! Marc |
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Post by thywar on Apr 14, 2018 10:06:55 GMT -7
Well that impresses the hell out of me from both of you. If I hit the pie plate at 100 I'm doing good.
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Post by marc on Apr 14, 2018 10:44:42 GMT -7
For me, it's all in the glass mounted atop and following my coaches directions! The kind of shooting I am referring to, is concrete bench rest with sandbags over and under, performed with little/no wind, using another persons precision rifle. It is a whole different level of cheating! Likely not what you may be envisioning.
I've said it before: My eyesight is really getting lousy, so even my plinking .22's and main AR-15 wear 3-9x40 scopes now. Between working on the new house and running my business, I will likely let my club membership lapse this year.
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Post by woodyz on Apr 14, 2018 12:30:26 GMT -7
Well there you go, its a small world
I know Eustace TX very well. I lived in Mabank for a time. Lots of retired people and people who spend their weekends at the lake there.
I got to know a lot of competition shooters from around there back in the late 70's on property owned by WT Dyer and his Father. Back then they owned or had owned everything before the lake was built. Most be 200 Dyers in that area
My Father lived there for several years until he moved North of Tyler and I went to work in Glen Rose. Over there we shot on a big 3K+ ranch, Flat Top I think, they made it into a shooting preserve and spa now, have their own airport etc.
Shot a lot of varmints off that ranch and mustang and rough creeks. Took a lot of rattlesnakes off it to, and thousands of them just south of Walnut Springs on those ridges.
Like you say I learn a lot just hanging out and watching those older guys.
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