|
Post by thedude74 on Apr 19, 2020 21:41:33 GMT -7
More solar is more gooder and stuff. Do I sound like a hillbilly? You know, I are one. Anyway. Ordered up another 1kw of mono panelsand a Flexmax 80 mppt charge controller. Will be purchasing 2- (250 ah each) AGM deep cycle batteries locally. Currently running a simple 300 watt pwm setup and a couple of 90 amp hour AGMs. Already have a nice Aims 1000 watt pure sine inverter/charger that has been running flawlessly everyday for a year now. I'll be leaving the current setup to operate the lights and water pump. The new setup will be running the fridge, freezer, well pump and occasionally the TV and DVD player. If it wasn't for already owning a 12 volt inverter it would be tempting to go 24v or 48v. Looking forward to getting it setup so we don't have to run the generator as much.
|
|
|
Post by solargeek1 on Apr 20, 2020 5:55:54 GMT -7
You'll never regret it. We started in 2013 with 6KW added another 8, and then added another 6KW & the last group had micro-inverters. We have a brilliant solar guy who managed to make everything work on our battery back up. We can run our house with no help from the grid if we have to. Got the 30% tax credit each time and time to do so that we would get the paltry state incentive also. That's why we did not put it all in right at the start.
Not cheap but at this rate since I've lived here now full time since 2014 (DH since mid-2017) and had the full system since 2016, it should be totally paid back in another 2 to 3 years. When we were living here part time we weren't running 2 deep freezers and things like that on it all the time.
Woohoo for you!
|
|
|
Post by marc on Apr 20, 2020 8:25:25 GMT -7
Be careful about your AGM selection - there are dramatic differences. (That is what I do for a living)
Marc
|
|
|
Post by thedude74 on Apr 22, 2020 0:35:30 GMT -7
Be careful about your AGM selection - there are dramatic differences. (That is what I do for a living) Marc Good point. Any thoughts on the 8-D AGMs made by East Pen(Deca?)? The gray case black top ones sold under several other labels.
|
|
|
Post by thedude74 on Apr 22, 2020 0:40:52 GMT -7
You'll never regret it. We started in 2013 with 6KW added another 8, and then added another 6KW & the last group had micro-inverters. We have a brilliant solar guy who managed to make everything work on our battery back up. We can run our house with no help from the grid if we have to. Got the 30% tax credit each time and time to do so that we would get the paltry state incentive also. That's why we did not put it all in right at the start. Not cheap but at this rate since I've lived here now full time since 2014 (DH since mid-2017) and had the full system since 2016, it should be totally paid back in another 2 to 3 years. When we were living here part time we weren't running 2 deep freezers and things like that on it all the time. Woohoo for you! Dang! That is a very substantial amount of electrons you got flowing there!
|
|
|
Post by marc on Apr 22, 2020 6:55:11 GMT -7
Be careful about your AGM selection - there are dramatic differences. (That is what I do for a living) Marc Good point. Any thoughts on the 8-D AGMs made by East Pen(Deca?)? The gray case black top ones sold under several other labels.
Yes, I am very familiar with East Penn line. Both their Deka and MK Gel lines. You are right: They are the main manufacturer of "house branded" batteries for places like Napa Auto Parts, West Marine, Academy Sports and many others. I applied them to some projects, but my customers were getting 3-5 years out of them, compared to 7-10 years from other manufacturers.
Deep cycle batteries are rated in "how many cycles, how deep."
Good AGMs like Fullriver, Rolls Surrette AGM, Lifeline, Sun Xtender and NorthStar have ratings around:
500-600 charge/discharge cycles at an average of 90% depth of discharge.
1,000 to 1,200 charge/discharge cycles at an average of 50% depth of discharge.
3,000 cycles at an average of 20% depth of discharge
Second tier AGM products have ratings of around half of those numbers. Common names are Optima, Odyssey and Deka.
Then there is a large number of lower end product coming out of China with cool sounding names and web pages - but have even lower ratings. Many of these are made by Vision or Universal and are very low cost.
Deka's AGM curves showed 500 cycles at 50% for years. Their Gel battery is well known to be high quality and always showed around 1,000 at 50%.
I widely published their graphs side by side with others, on the internet. Suddenly, the Deka curves were republished showing twice the original rating numbers. Magically they matched the ratings of the better batteries out there. No marketing news, no advertising splash, no charge in capacity - just a sudden doubling of their claimed cycle life by quietly changing a column of numbers in one brochure. I do not believe it, and feedback from the field tells me that I am right. Yes, they cost a lot less. I am big on "bang for the buck" but saving 25%-30% for a cheap AGM that gives you 50% service life is not something that I will do on my applications.
For the past 11 years, I have sold and applied 2,000 to 3,000 big AGMs per year for off grid, industrial and RV/marine applications worldwide. Generally, I am involved in the entire process from system design to startup. Many of the industrial/oilfield app's are more like battery torture testing, so I have had the opportunity to learn quite a bit about how batteries perform under various conditions including Arctic and extreme desert
High quality AGM batteries in a properly designed and operated off grid solar system should provide a 7-10 year service life, very heavily dependent on average battery temperature. In colder climates, add a couple more years.
Sorry to be so wordy! There is so much more to compare like minimum/maximum charge/discharge amperage, which can benefit from equalizing vs. being damaged by it, etc. Do your homework!
Marc
|
|
|
Post by solargeek1 on Apr 22, 2020 11:26:46 GMT -7
marcYou're not "wordy", you are helpful, easy to understand, and generous with your expertise. Thank you for all you offer for us here. You and Cwi555 And several others, are a huge help.
|
|
|
Post by thedude74 on May 4, 2020 0:03:20 GMT -7
marcYou're not "wordy", you are helpful, easy to understand, and generous with your expertise. Thank you for all you offer for us here. You and Cwi555 And several others, or a huge help. I'll second that. The input from a battery expert is much appreciated. I'm going to get some more quotes on both AGM and vented flooded batteries. I can get the East Penn AGMs (O'Reilly) for $430 each. Rolls Surrette AGMs are about twice the price up here (Alaska) On the other hand I've heard nothing but praise from Rolls owners who routinely get 8-12 years out of a set on boat and rv coach batteries. It might be worthwhile building a vented battery box. Lower cost vs capacity means quality is more affordable. The panels are being shipped and the charge controller has yet to be shipped so I have a little time to think about it. I calculated the electrical load a few times with fridge, freezer, tv, well pump etc. Now considering 10-12kw of battery storage. Should be in the 20%-30% depth of discharge range. With two backup generators we shouldn't ever have to go beyond 50%. I realize I'm rambling a bit at this point. Any more thoughts would be welcome.
|
|