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Post by missj on Sept 28, 2012 0:31:27 GMT -7
A frequently under-discussed topic on survival forums. But after an extended grid-down event I'd expect that communicable diseases will cause as many or MORE deaths than violence or maybe even starvation.
Off the top of my head I think some important sanitation items to store would be:
Garbage Bags
Toilet Paper
hand sanitizer gel
Baby wipes
rubbing alcohol
peri bottle (squeeze bottle for rinsing off your bottom)
Feminine Hygiene items
solar shower ?
latex or nitrile gloves
face masks
rubber kitchen gloves
at least 1 good spade shovel for burying waste
More Garbage Bags
Think about a scenario where you have no garbage service, and possibly no running water. Think about pack it in pack it out camping...think how filthy you are after 2-3 days of camping and all the sanitation items required for that.
Any other ideas or considerations?
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Post by graf on Sept 28, 2012 2:04:07 GMT -7
Keep in mind that fire ash can be used to wash with mixed with water it contains traces of lye similar to what is used in making soap. You can also use after feces to cover odor and as an absorbant. I also recommend a coverall suit made of tyvack which I bought from Home Depot for less than $20.00 it can keep bodily fluids from pentrating clothing as well as a weather barrier I found it in the paint isle. Also recommend some FalsNaptha soap for eliminating poison ivy etc also you can make laundry soap from it, add to the list Borax and Super Washing Soda and you will be able to make laundry soap.
For standard cleaning purchase white vinigar and ammonia both will replace many cleaning chemicals on the market.
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Post by wtrfwlr on Sept 28, 2012 2:41:38 GMT -7
You should not just mix wood ash and water together and wash your skin with it. That makes lye which is acid and can cause a severe chemical burn to the skin. It must be mixed with lard or tallow to have a Ph that is safe to use. Straight wood ash and water is what is used to make hair fall out of hides when making leather or buckskins. Use caution, this is very dangerous stuff! Here is one of many pages that shows how to make old fashioned lye soap properly. shepherdshillhomestead.com/2011/07/23/lye-soap-making/I have worn those Tyvex paint cover all for years in automotive painting and they are not in anyway comfortable. Try it before you plan on them, they do not breathe and when I wore them I would be drenched in sweat in a matter of minutes. Some of the newer undergarments are far superior, I have Patagonia but I have heard from hunters that UnderArmour is excellent too. They are very warm but they breathe and they do not hold body odor like cotton or wool blends do. |
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Post by pathwinder14 on Sept 28, 2012 6:13:33 GMT -7
The rise of communicable diseases is another reason I advocate bugging out for long term SHTF. Being in a remote area removes you from the population centers carrying those disseases. When there is no medical help readily avilable, prevention becomes all too important.
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Post by thywar on Sept 28, 2012 7:17:59 GMT -7
But Pathwinder, for that very same reason you're also putting yourself at risk. If you're 'bugged out' and in a remote area, you'll have no resources to assist you IF something were to happen to you. I don't know, I think with the right sanitation and prevention (plus not letting strangers into your area without some quarantine time) would be the right move.
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Post by missasip on Sept 28, 2012 8:06:27 GMT -7
As it stands now, things won't change much. Already have and use a burn barrel for burnable trash now. Metal and plastic get recycled.
The spetic tank still works fine. Running water should not be a big deal here. Between the well and community water it should continue on.
Am looking as I have for quite a while, at a solar water pump.
Jimmy
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Post by pathwinder14 on Sept 28, 2012 9:23:06 GMT -7
But Pathwinder, for that very same reason you're also putting yourself at risk. If you're 'bugged out' and in a remote area, you'll have no resources to assist you IF something were to happen to you. I don't know, I think with the right sanitation and prevention (plus not letting strangers into your area without some quarantine time) would be the right move. I see your argument and it makes some sense. I just feel that in a long term SHTF, the ammenities of city living are not there to combat the new threats. If you get sick, you have no hospital to go to. If you get assaulted you have no police to call. If your house catches fire you have no fire dept. to call. Need food? The grocery store is a ghost town. Better to get out from the disease areas of Cholera, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Flu, TB, HEPA and B, and Typhoid that will come back wiht a vengeance with no modern sanitation. Being in a remote area for long term SHTF has less dangers. |
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Post by missj on Sept 28, 2012 9:45:43 GMT -7
Let's say somebody in your house gets real sick. Diarrhea, fever. This is your spouse or child so you are most likely NOT going to put them out in some quarantine tent (or maybe you would?)
How would you care for this person?
I'd say give them a quarantine "room" or wing of the house.
Wear a mask and latex gloves when caring for them....if the illness seems unusually dangerous you may want to wear an "overgown" when you go in the room to bring them food etc. that you can strip off before you go around the house, sitting on other furniture etc.
If this person is having a lot of vomiting or diarrhea issues they may need to be camped out in the bathroom with an air mattress or sleeping bag (also, bathrooms have more hard surfaces that are easier to disinfect).
Try to designate ONE person to care for them so that everybody doesn't get sick at the same time.
Frequently wipe down hard surfaces in the house with a diluted bleach solution (door knobs, countertops, faucets).
everybody in the house use hand sanitizer frequently (like maybe 10+ times per day).
those are just some thoughts off the top of my head....I don't actually know if they are valid quarantine procedures or not....just seem logical to me.
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Post by graf on Sept 28, 2012 10:54:41 GMT -7
You should not just mix wood ash and water together and wash your skin with it. That makes lye which is acid and can cause a severe chemical burn to the skin. It must be mixed with lard or tallow to have a Ph that is safe to use. Straight wood ash and water is what is used to make hair fall out of hides when making leather or buckskins. Use caution, this is very dangerous stuff! Here is one of many pages that shows how to make old fashioned lye soap properly. shepherdshillhomestead.com/2011/07/23/lye-soap-making/I have worn those Tyvex paint cover all for years in automotive painting and they are not in anyway comfortable. Try it before you plan on them, they do not breathe and when I wore them I would be drenched in sweat in a matter of minutes. Some of the newer undergarments are far superior, I have Patagonia but I have heard from hunters that UnderArmour is excellent too. They are very warm but they breathe and they do not hold body odor like cotton or wool blends do. I have washed with wood ash and water before as long as rinsed well have had no problems. The tyvex coveralls I have used them as well I'm not suggesting daily living in them only when coming in contact with unknown danger of transfer of bodily fluids or contaminents. |
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Post by missj on Oct 4, 2012 19:30:52 GMT -7
another thing I thought of was body bags. I don't know if you need to specially buy body bags or if you can make something at home that is relatively safe.
Also, how to bury the dead in a safe and respectful way....I don't know how far away from ground water they need to be or how deep the hole needs to be.
you always hear about "6 feet under".....well I sure as heck don't WANT to dig any 6 foot holes if I don't absolutely HAVE TO!!!!! That's A LOT OF WORK!!! Especially if you are burying people you don't know, or bad guys.
Does anyone know any specifics about this topic?
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Post by thywar on Oct 4, 2012 20:30:00 GMT -7
A little gas, a little match and no holes.. say amen and spread the ashes
edit: okay that was tongue in cheek but once I hit post reply it didn't look so much like that.. sooo
I'm sure there are many ways to bury that aren't 6 feet under and lime and other chemicals will go along way towards helping disintegrate.. I don't want to haul them 1/4 mile away either.. I really do think a burn pile some distance away could be a viable option.
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Post by graf on Oct 5, 2012 0:45:03 GMT -7
I would agree a that burning bodys would be the best, it would eliminate desease ad during the winter months with frozen ground its the only option. The fire would have to be a very hot bellows type fire or even a large scale dakota fire pit
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Post by Lawdog2705 on Oct 5, 2012 10:23:57 GMT -7
Agreed, in a SHTF situation, burning a body is the healthiest choice. I'd try to do it somewhere away from home incase the fire drew any attention. Of course, I prefer cremation over burial anyway...JMHO.
As far as treating the person, we obviously need to keep them hydrated. I keep lots of premixed rehydration solutions made up for that.
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Post by WILL on Oct 5, 2012 14:24:42 GMT -7
We’re looking at long term solutions to hygiene issues that don't involve alot of disposable/ non-renewable items. Ideas like burning trash, using washable diapers/rags, learning how to make soap, ect. While stocking up is a good idea, a better idea is learning how it was done before those items existed. That way we’re more survivalist than prepper. We have a septic tank so waste disposal isn't an issue for quite a while. For TP, we can use rags and a big stainless steel pot with a lid. Throw the soiled rags into the pot and put the lid on it to keep the smell down. When the pot gets full enough, bring it outside to a dedicated fire area away from the well/water source. Put water in it and boil the rags for a while, stirring them with a stick. This should "purify" them. Dump the gray water away from the well. Fill with water again and repeat the process with a bit of soap to clean them up. When you feel comfortable they are clean enough for re-use, rinse and hang dry them. I've never done this, but it seems pretty strait forward and that's our plan.
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Post by missj on Oct 5, 2012 14:43:30 GMT -7
with regards to "renewable" hygiene items don't overlook the "Peri Bottle" for rinsing off your bum...
it is just a small squeeze bottle designed to work effectively "back there"...the pressure of the hand squeezed water is a gentle enough pressure to not cause problems, but a strong enough pressure to clean things up.
They give these out free on most labor and delivery units because new moms are not supposed to use toilet paper for a while....no reason that they couldn't work for men too.... No matter how much TP you store, eventually you will run out....
"Glad rags" for feminine hygiene issues....an oldie but a goodie
Also, very quickly people will have to adjust their criteria for what is an "acceptable" level of personal cleanliness. No more washing clothes every time you wear them....no more daily showers
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