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Post by WILL on Oct 13, 2012 5:25:37 GMT -7
Survival stuff has always been a type of insurance policy for me. It’s always in the background of my life, rarely employed for local disasters/issues and never employed on an TEOTWAWKI scale. Lately, I’ve become fairly convinced America is going to experience mass financial failure in the near future. This is not a drill. It’s actually starting to happen right now and there are some convincing indicators projecting it will get much worse. I don’t want to get into why I believe what I do. The point of this thread is what I’m going to do about it.
We already have some great survival preparations and knowledge that will be very useful to up our odds. We’ve also maintained a balanced lifestyle, meaning we’ve prepared for success in the event society doesn’t go wrong, and have sacrificed some SHTF survival odds in order to better facilitate our fiscal success working within society. In other words, we don’t live in a survival homestead in an off-grid, rural South Idaho or West Virginia. We havent dumped all our cash on survival preparations. We have the ability right now to do that if we wanted. The transition would uproot my entire family and I would be changing everything we know and do on a regular basis.
On the other hand, America has been in worse debt before, and pulled out of it just fine. What if I’m wrong. I would have incurred a huge, unnecessary hardship on my family for nothing. I can’t be making that kind of mistake with my families lives based on fear of a possible future.
So, knowing what you know about America’s fiscal situation, how convinced are you that we’re headed into something life threatening? Do you struggle with how far you’re willing to go doing something about it? Are you going all in on survival?
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Post by Redneckidokie on Oct 13, 2012 9:52:49 GMT -7
Well, I am no financial planner for sure, and I don't know what signals your feeling. But for me, financial woes are only one of several things making my hair stand on my neck. The situation you are speaking of where you pull up your roots and move to a retreat type life style? I am just not there yet. As you said we have been a lot worse off before and made out ok. Not to say that coupled with some other factors like foreign or domestic attacks, EMPs, leading to military take overs, that things couldn't turn for the ugly side. Short of pulling the plug and going off grid, going down the rabbit hole and pulling it shut behind me, I AM pretty much all in now. We still have jobs to go to, and daily life to work around. When that is gone then I will move more towards full ''turtle mode'', pull in my legs and shut the hatches. Only you can know what makes you comfortable. I see possible hard times, but not life threatening situations. Lawlessness yes, but we have that now.  Maybe I should be more scared, I don't know. Hope you get it worked out.  Of course, there is that pesky election looming over us. |
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Post by missj on Oct 13, 2012 12:25:25 GMT -7
I'm right there with you will. Some folks are very comfortable being All-in....most people are happy being oblivious. I am torn between two worlds. I, for one, am NOT convinced that our government will crumble and lose control of the masses in my lifetime. Although it becomes more and more likely every day, it is far from a "given" in my mind. Still, I do think it is very possible. Most likely I think we are about to go through the great depression all over again...but probably worse this time. I only have history as an example, so these are some of the things I think about and prepare for: Runs on banks. stock market crash. entire paper fortunes lost in a matter of days. government seizure of precious metals. Bread lines (well, actually how is a digital food stamp card THAT much different than a bread line? we already have 1 in 7 amercians supposedly on food stamps or some kind of food assistance....maybe we are already there on the bread lines thing  ). I am not ready to uproot my family, or "go down the rabbit hole" although my husband might tell you that I already HAVE gone down the rabbit hole.. ;D ;D ;Dha ha For me, I believe the one big factor will be my job. As long as I have this great job; I will continue to live a relatively normal life. I'm already pretty "abnormal" in that I've stopped contributing to my 401-K and I've cashed out 50% of my retirement...I'm already abnormal in that instead of going on vacations or buying fancy things like plasma TVs and new SUVs I pay off our debts and buy food, goods and ammo....but beyond that I'm just not ready to go All-In.... If I had to assign some kind of odds....I'd say that "greater depression" is about 80% likely. Total economic collapse and ensuing anarchy is about 15-20% likely and America managing to pull it off and everything goes on as normal for my lifetime is 5% likely or less. I just made those "odds" up out of thin air based on my feelings and opinions...but if I really believe that economic collapse and anarchy are even 10% likely then that is some scary, scary stuff, and worth preparing for. But I don't know if 10%, 15% or even 20% likely is worth going "all-in" for. Either way....I feel it is only 5% likely that the stock market is a good "bet" for my family's future. I think the election has almost no impact on which one of those things happens. We are in too deep for one man to change the course we are on, even if that man is the POTUS. |
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 13, 2012 16:58:05 GMT -7
I am on record for what I believe already.
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Post by missasip on Oct 14, 2012 7:54:04 GMT -7
US population 123,000,000 in 1929. National debt in 1929 $104 billion. Only 16.3 % of GDP
US population 313,000,000 in 2012 National debt in 2012 over $16 trillion. Now over 95% of GDP
Totally different culture then versus now.
No there has not been a debt crisis at anytime in US history as bad as it is now. The Great Depression was not a debt issue. It was an overzealous stock market that was so flimsy that the rest of the world fell when it did.
I fully believe that our stock market now is in similar shape. But to go with it, we have a national debt that is spiraling upward at a rate we cannot continue, without something bad happening.
So no we don’t really have any experience coming back from something as bad as it appears is going to happen.
Not everyone can have all the insurance they want, but they just try to do the best they can. Which you and everyone else here are trying to do.
JMWAG
Jimmy
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Post by WILL on Oct 14, 2012 8:22:36 GMT -7
Those are sobering numbers....
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 14, 2012 10:51:56 GMT -7
US population 123,000,000 in 1929. National debt in 1929 $104 billion. Only 16.3 % of GDP US population 313,000,000 in 2012 National debt in 2012 over $16 trillion. Now over 95% of GDP Totally different culture then versus now. No there has not been a debt crisis at anytime in US history as bad as it is now. The Great Depression was not a debt issue. It was an overzealous stock market that was so flimsy that the rest of the world fell when it did. I fully believe that our stock market now is in similar shape. But to go with it, we have a national debt that is spiraling upward at a rate we cannot continue, without something bad happening. So no we don’t really have any experience coming back from something as bad as it appears is going to happen. Not everyone can have all the insurance they want, but they just try to do the best they can. Which you and everyone else here are trying to do. JMWAG Jimmy Of all the things you wished could lie, math is one of them. Reality being what it is, simple math like that does not lie. We are screwed. It is not if, it's how. Do we slide slowly to the bottom or crash land nose first. We may pull an Iceland with the former, but the latter leaves us broken completely as a nation. |
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Post by pathwinder14 on Oct 22, 2012 11:26:14 GMT -7
I do not wish for TEOTWAWKI but I know it is coming. I try to be no part of this world but I do have to live in it. I try to be realistic in my preparations. They are mainly for natural diasters as they are the most prevalent and realistic problems in my area. However, I am not ignorant to the larger problems with the world. Should the poop hit the fan, I'm ok walking away from it all.
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Post by lonewufcry on Oct 22, 2012 11:50:16 GMT -7
to be honest i am as far as i can go right now due to my own mistakes and personell issues. When and if it all goes to heck i will be fine for at least 6 months.
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Post by WILL on Oct 22, 2012 14:22:22 GMT -7
We have a pretty good set up where we’re at now, except………………I have to admit the problem is my wife’s MS. We just got back from our 17th anniversary in August. We went to St. Augustine for a long weekend of ghost hunting and celebration. Long story short, my wife didn’t do so well outdoors because of her MS. Her body quickly began malfunctioning outside in the heat, and we had to stay indoors. She would quickly become overwhelmed in Florida Summers without A/C, and I would lose her. That anniversary weekend really drove home that if TSHTF here in Florida, to where the power was unreliable or gone all together, my wife would die. The really tough decision for us is that I’m on track to be retired in about 8 years and my kids have pre-paid college here in Florida. Will the economy make it another 8 years? If the economy didn’t crash, walking away right now would be a terrible financial decision. We’re talking about 17 years of a policing career and pre-paid college just about wasted. There’s no way in hell I have another 25- 30 years of policing in me. On the other hand, if it did crash, and we hadn’t moved to a cooler climate, I could lose my wife.
What would you do?
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 22, 2012 15:17:36 GMT -7
Will, I believe many have jumped to the worse case scenario of a crash. Remember that is only one possible future of many regarding a crash. I've witnessed several variants of economic crashes. Some are like crash landings on the belly of a plane where all get out of the plane alive but shaken. Others erupted into total chaos (short term) for the country. They were the equivalent of a nose down crash from cruising altitude. There is a potential for the equivalent of a mid air collision as well. Point being, no one can say with 100 percent certainty how it will happen. That goes for many other scenario's from nuclear war, to solar CME blast, to any other scenario you care to name. It is all probabilities. Some probabilities are higher than others, but it still comes back to probabilities. The honorable thing to do is stick with your wife and do what is right for her and family. In your situation and in my opinion, that would mean staying the course. Make preparations for your location to be survivable for your wife. That means controlling the air or at least having a safe room/retreat with that in mind. With the heat issue you have, I'd be looking at an einstein refrigerator, solar ice maker, water cooling towers, and multiple other technologies along those lines. Speaking for myself, there isn't much of a reason to survive if that survival comes at the price of honor and family. My take on it for what it's worth We have a pretty good set up where we’re at now, except………………I have to admit the problem is my wife’s MS. We just got back from our 17th anniversary in August. We went to St. Augustine for a long weekend of ghost hunting and celebration. Long story short, my wife didn’t do so well outdoors because of her MS. Her body quickly began malfunctioning outside in the heat, and we had to stay indoors. She would quickly become overwhelmed in Florida Summers without A/C, and I would lose her. That anniversary weekend really drove home that if TSHTF here in Florida, to where the power was unreliable or gone all together, my wife would die. The really tough decision for us is that I’m on track to be retired in about 8 years and my kids have pre-paid college here in Florida. Will the economy make it another 8 years? If the economy didn’t crash, walking away right now would be a terrible financial decision. We’re talking about 17 years of a policing career and pre-paid college just about wasted. There’s no way in hell I have another 25- 30 years of policing in me. On the other hand, if it did crash, and we hadn’t moved to a cooler climate, I could lose my wife. What would you do? |
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Post by offtrail on Oct 22, 2012 17:45:45 GMT -7
Life in general is a coin toss, is it not? The best a person can do is prepare as best he can. That's it in a nut shell |
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Post by pathwinder14 on Oct 23, 2012 9:58:22 GMT -7
Life in general is a coin toss, is it not? The best a person can do is prepare as best he can. That's it in a nut shell That's the best response! |
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Post by mountainmark on Oct 23, 2012 18:15:39 GMT -7
On the other hand, if it did crash, and we hadn’t moved to a cooler climate, I could lose my wife. What would you do? +1 to cwi's post. I'm in the midst of designing a new cheese cave for the farm. One idea we are ruminating on is having an underground room with solar powered lights and circulater pump that will pump water through a length of buried pipe. (about 100ft per 1000 cubic feet of room). The water would run through tubing set into the wall and keep it at a constant 50-55 degrees (in theory) Not that your wife would want to spend a lot of time in a cellar of this sort, but maybe just from time to time when the heat is getting to her. This would also double as a nice root cellar etc. Just a thought. If we end up deciding on this design, I will share pictures. mark |
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