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Post by missj on Oct 20, 2012 17:24:19 GMT -7
I'm trying to think what things I could do NOW to reinforce my home...make it more defensible...but also things that would "fly" under the radar during "normal times"...not reduce my property value or make us look crazy. Not inhibit "regular" life too much...
Here are a few that I've come up with.
Storing sand bags (empty). shouldn't take up too much space, or be too expensive? then if the time ever comes you can reinforce a couple of shooting positions from inside your house- near windows or doors. If the S never HTF, then you're not out too much time, effort or money.
Trash cans. Right now they don't look out of place. In a future world with no trash service they will not be too useful for hauling trash. You could fill them up with dirt or gravel or whatever dense material is laying around. Arranged strategically they could provide good cover, possibly even a good defensive firing position...also they could be spread around in a way that you could dash back to your home stopping every few seconds to take cover and return fire. Hopefully by the time a few rounds have been exchanged you'll be getting help from your inside your home. Also, if bad guys are "scouting" your location prior to an attack, they are unlikely to know that the trash cans are filled with dirt and use that against you.
Raised Bed Garden Boxes: Even if you don't prefer this method of gardening (I do NOT prefer it myself) it could prove to be strategic for defense. maybe make them a bit taller than average (30 inches instead of 18 inches?)....put them in strategic locations so that you could move safely to and from the home and other important locations.
Plywood tunnel to allow undetected movement between two close buildings. You would just pre-cut and then store the plywood and needed lumber, ready to be assembled if the time ever came. This would serve only as concealment, not cover. If you have a detached garage with a loft that would make a great defensive position, the bad guys won't know somebody is running down your little "plywood tunnel" to put them in a crossfire. Not great, but Better than running out in the open during a gunfight. A plywood tunnel could also be used to get to a well pump house, storage room, greenhouse etc. any nearby important building that you don't want your movements to be detected. ( a real, underground tunnel would be much better....but too labor intensive after SHTF, and too "over the top" during normal times...
any other ideas?
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Post by urbanprep on Oct 21, 2012 14:14:18 GMT -7
I have been kicking around ideas with a similar purpose, and to not detract from the home value as well as not to reveal anything to the passerby. That being said:
Raised Bed Garden Boxes: I read somewhere to make some decorative planters (that could be raised garden beds; Dig them out 3-4 feet, use concrete walls (above ground) or/with stone to make them appealable. Back fill with planting media; then when you have to use them as fighting positions, dig them out (presumably quicker) and your position is ready.
Porch Improvements: We have a covered front porch. I have wire fencing to place over the front, to slow someone down from coming up the steps, or scaling the short height (4feet) and jumping the rail. I also have supports to augment the pillars. If needed this could be increased with barb or razor wire.
Anti-Home Invasion: One article I read suggested hanging fish hooks (treble hooks) from chest to head height near a door that is a possible home invasion point. That would look "lovely" -- not. So I came up with a few 2x4's that have treble hooks on 100 pound or higher fishing line. If needed these can be screwed into the ceiling joist creating a very imposing barrier about 6 feet deep for anyone bum rushing the door. But for now, they are SAFELY stored away.
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Post by cowgirlup on Oct 21, 2012 15:37:43 GMT -7
Good ideas. I really like the garbage can idea. Also the idea for the porch steps. We have a screened in porch on the front of the house. It's on the second story from the ground at that point. I wanted something less drastic than cutting the steps off the house. I like the odea of some temporary thing that will just make it difficult to go up the narrow stairway.
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Post by tjwilhelm on Oct 22, 2012 6:29:22 GMT -7
This is a very interesting topic. Good thinking, here, Missj. Just one word of caution...when setting up protective barriers, sometimes they also become cover for intruders, allowing the bad guys to get closer then they might otherwise be able to intrude. Strategic/tactical design and implementation of these measures is critical.
Another thought...sometimes avoiding a fight is more wise than engaging in a gun battle. Withstanding a seige may not be viable, long-term.
I really like the tunnel idea...use it to get away and avoid being held under seige. Then, if safely feasible, come around behind the attackers and shoot them in the back...there are no nobility and sportsmanship rules under these kinds of circumstances.
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Post by fenster on Oct 22, 2012 7:03:17 GMT -7
Rose Bushes under all first floor windows. Not perfect but will definitely slow down a potential intruder.
Going to add a bed of roses under my girls windows soon. No sneaking out or boys sneaking in. ;D
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Post by missasip on Oct 22, 2012 7:47:16 GMT -7
I'm currently trying to get enough Flying Dragon to encircle my place. It’s kinda hard to find around here. It will make an exceptional defensive fence. The real name is poncirus trifoliate. At one time the military was using it to encircle military property. Once established good and think, it takes a dozer to get through it. www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2012/06/that_twisty_thorny_plant_with.htmlBefore building this new place, I’m taking a lot of ideas into consideration. I really like the hurricane shelters the counties are putting up along the coast. The have earth bermed walls. Remind me of the old ammo dump storage buildings they used to have at the NG base. Jimmy
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Post by tjwilhelm on Oct 22, 2012 9:00:58 GMT -7
I like the idea od strategic planting of barrier plants -- a living-fence strategy. One to consider is the Rugosa Rose. The thorns are wicked and the rose hips are abundant and nutritious!
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Post by woodyz on Oct 22, 2012 10:09:33 GMT -7
Storing sand bags (empty). . Trash cans. Raised Bed Garden Boxes: Read more: survivalbunker.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bugging&action=display&thread=2783#ixzz2A2vxm9KKI like your thinking. We put water in most of the trashcans/barrels/etc. Gives us more stored water and water will stop bullets almost as good as dirt. Raised beds are a great barrier, but don't stop there, use the raised beds to bury caches under the flowers or crops. No one pays much attention to someone digging in their flower bed or garden. Also, use a 55 gallon barrel to create a spider hole. Bury the barrel, but instead of using it as a cache, make a trap door under a plant or bush so that when you stand in it your head is at ground level and you can raise the trap door to look around or to shoot undetected. VC did it all the time. In the country where bales of hay are stacked against a tree row, create a couple of spider holes among them. But not to be misleading I think it will be well into a SHTF before you would face sieges or the need to defend the home front from a bunch or zombies. There may be a big blowup at first, depending on what the trigger is, then until the food or water run out everyone will hunker down and try to survive. You may need to defend against a few people trying a home invasion at 4AM, but I don't see much trench fighting for the majority of the average people. IMO maybe a 5% chance. Preps need to focus 80% on floods and fires, and no money, things like that. But if there were 20 armed people coming up the road and I had 5 defenders, I would just bug out. Hide and watch what they do. Hope they don't sit fires and just steal what they can carry. Then since I know the terrain and they don't I would establish a good ambush site (maybe one prepared for just such an event) and take back my stuff and theirs. It would be up to your individual commitment to let any of them go so they can come back later, or not.
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Post by alex on Oct 22, 2012 18:33:25 GMT -7
Rose Bushes under all first floor windows. Not perfect but will definitely slow down a potential intruder. Going to add a bed of roses under my girls windows soon. No sneaking out or boys sneaking in. ;D I've got a Pest Control client who has Yucca planted around EVERY window on the South side of her home. I've complained many times about "not getting a complete service done due to the thickness, barbs and height of the Yucca plants on the South side of her home...her response upon the third complaint..."I've never seen a bug on the south side I could not squish...people on the other hand require a slightly larger foot!" After I was told this I stopped complaining about the Yucca and did the best I could around the bushes...she is now saving a few of the blooming stalks for me to save for friction/bow drill fires. For me it's Yucca at the base of the windows, this only allows intruders two entrance points...front door, or back door...only one of which you are welcome at....you figure it out.
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Post by missj on Oct 22, 2012 19:42:29 GMT -7
[ b]Raised Bed Garden Boxes[/b]: I read somewhere to make some decorative planters (that could be raised garden beds; Dig them out 3-4 feet, use concrete walls (above ground) or/with stone to make them appealable. Back fill with planting media; then when you have to use them as fighting positions, dig them out (presumably quicker) and your position is ready. yes! awesome idea! now you don't snoop in my planter box, and I won't snoop in yours! :-) [/size] [/quote] I like your thinking. We put water in most of the trashcans/barrels/etc. Gives us more stored water and water will stop bullets almost as good as dirt. I wondered if that would work? But I didn't know if water had similar ballistic resistance to dirt or gravel?
Raised beds are a great barrier, but don't stop there, use the raised beds to bury caches under the flowers or crops. No one pays much attention to someone digging in their flower bed or garden.... awesome!!
But not to be misleading I think it will be well into a SHTF before you would face sieges or the need to defend the home front from a bunch or zombies.
There may be a big blowup at first, depending on what the trigger is, then until the food or water run out everyone will hunker down and try to survive. I agree.
You may need to defend against a few people trying a home invasion at 4AM, but I don't see much trench fighting for the majority of the average people. IMO maybe a 5% chance. Preps need to focus 80% on floods and fires, and no money, things like that.
But if there were 20 armed people coming up the road and I had 5 defenders, I would just bug out. Hide and watch what they do. Hope they don't sit fires and just steal what they can carry. Then since I know the terrain and they don't I would establish a good ambush site (maybe one prepared for just such an event) and take back my stuff and theirs.
It would be up to your individual commitment to let any of them go so they can come back later, or not. So many good ideas going here. Woodyz....I totally agree with your analysis on the likelihood of "trench fighting". If we were in a situation where a group of 15-20+ was descending on us...we would definitely bug out...and hopefully do as you describe. What I want is to be able to shift the odds in my favor so that a smallish group of adults (maybe 6 or 7) could defend against a smallish "gang" of roughly equal size. As the defenders, with advanced warning and a plan in place I think this is reasonable. My "gut" feeling about the enemy is that very large groups of looters and raiders are unlikely to form due to large group dynamics and internal power struggles. Once the group got too large they would likely start in-fighting and then "splinter off" into 2 smaller groups. And when 2 un-related groups of bad guys happen upon each other it seems to me they'd be more likely to fight eachother than co-operate and join forces- and if they do fight they will dwindle their numbers that way. Therefore, if it is a large group we face, we should assume they are probably highly trained, and well organized and WAAAAY outclass us. If they are a large group they probably have a respected military structure with related tactics and we would be TOAST. I'm not sure what "group size" would be most likely for independent, medium to low skilled gangs of looters and raiders...I'm just going based on Wild West movies and carload sizes....seems in the wild west "bands of thieves" seemed to be in groups of 3-6...there is probably some kind of human social reason for that, or tactical reason, or both. Or maybe it is just the movies, and not realistic at all? I really don't know if my opinions have any merit on the "group sizes" we'd be defending against...but I'd LIKE to get to the point that we could mount a formidable defense against groups smaller than 8.
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Post by ccove on Oct 23, 2012 7:56:22 GMT -7
I like the garbage can idea but I would fill them with landscape gravel and then soak dirt into them and use them for car stops.
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Post by ccove on Oct 23, 2012 12:48:18 GMT -7
One thing that I do is stack all my wood against the fence line. One quarter of my property has a stockade fence then two cords of wood arranged along its length. Not the greatest defense but better then nothing.
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Post by woodyz on Oct 23, 2012 16:39:07 GMT -7
Our wood stacks are along the fence lines as well, just like the hay rolls you can split the wood pile and create a spider hole inside the pile. Misj I agree it is always better to be prepared and not need it, then need it and not be prepared. From a defender standpoint, you have some advantages. Make them fight on your ground. Establish fields of fire and force the attackers to use the fields of fire. Range your fields of fire ahead of time so you know where you rounds will go. Maybe a fence or downed trees they go around instead of over, but even needing to climb over makes one a handy target. Don't worry about them hiding behind your wood fence, leave a foot gap at the bottom so you can see under it, your bullets will go right through it. Which makes me remember an AR will go through 3/4 inch plywood, but not a cement block wall. An AK or a 308 will go through cement blocks. Cement block walls with concrete in the voids will stop both. Don't just practice for hitting your target, know what your rounds will at a given range when they get to the target. Try and establish your defense with overlapping triangles so two people can cover the same area. Never leave your back unguarded or cut yourself off from retreat. If you push back the first drive expect them to try and circle you. Retreat is just a tactical advance in another direction , pre-establish ambush points on your retreat path, a pinch point or a water crossing where one person can hold back a group while your main force gets away. If you know where your defense positions will be ahead of time you can keep them stocked with some water and extra ammo. Keep a tourniquet and some blood clotting agents there. It may sound cruel but a wounded man concerned about his family can still fight for one more attack if he can stop the bleeding. Don't ignore the value of booby traps, trip wires and fire bombs, establish their locations before hand but don't finish the set of you expect friendlies to come around. You can trip flares or 12 ga rounds to give you advance warning. A 12 gauge shotgun loaded with the rounds that have a slug or ball with 00 behind makes an excellent defense weapon, the slugs are good for 70 yards or better. Again test it out, know ahead of time what it will do. I like the thorn bushes under the windows. You can drive nails through a board or a roof shingle and put them nail up any where at night and still collect them for safety during the day.
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Post by woodyz on Oct 23, 2012 16:43:07 GMT -7
Tractor supply or farmtek are two places I know carry sandbags. Nylon at about $1 each. If you don't have one near, go to their web.
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Post by missj on Oct 28, 2012 16:07:34 GMT -7
Another thought, since you won't be using your cars and trucks in the same way anymore, is to arrange them strategically on your property, and if you intend to use them as cover or fighting positions you can reinforce them from the inside with things like sandbags. Maybe you park them in front of your house to "fortify" your most vulnerable walls or picture windows?
Would this work? I know modern cars (mostly plastic) will barely stop handgun rounds, and even that is questionable. But if filled up with sand bags from the windows down, seems to me you've got a fighting position on wheels...
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