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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:11:53 GMT -7
Screaming Eagle New Member
I've put down a deposit on a camp that's got almost 2 acres of land. Probably half of it is cleared with the rest being mixed pine and hardwood.
I've also got a buddy that's just had some newborn goats. I'm thinking of getting two of his goats (male and female) to use as lawnmowers for the grassy area (whispy grass in sandy soil). Planning on staking them out during the day. I've got a well house of sorts I could put them in at night for critter protection and protection from the weather although I could also put them in a chicken coop area that I'm going to build.
I'd like to hear your experience of taking care of goats. I'd really prefer direct experience (hands on) but I'll also look at any resources you recommend. I'm starting off at ground zero with goat experience so all experience is welcome. Thanks.
Screaming Eagle, May 2, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:15:37 GMT -7
Dink Well-Known Member From years of experience The biggest threat to goats here in Missouri are domestic dogs and then coyotes/coydogs. I have a whither and a nanny. A whither is a neutered male. I keep them in a 1 acre fenced lot. The nanny is a pygmy (Daisy) and the male (Henry) is her son out of a nubian buck. She was never handled and I got her as a rescue case. She was very wild when I got her, but all you have to do is feed them regularly and you will be amazed at how fast they will tame down, and how smart they actually are. It depends on the breed you get as to how much feed you give them. I give mine a mixture of 1/2 alfalfa pellets (or rabbit pellets) and 1/2 shell corn. I fill a green been can with this mix and give 1/2 to each of them and do this 2x per day. They need LOOSE stock salt free choice, if you get a salt block, they will tear up their gums trying to get salt and then not be able to eat. Also get a SHEEP mineral, it has no added copper like cattle mineral does, this added copper causes kidney failure and death. It also needs to be in a loose form, feed it free choice like the salt, but do NOT mix the 2. Make sure they have clean fresh water every day. A large goat will only drink about 3-5 cups of water per day, so you need to make sure its good & clean. Sorry, but the old saying they will eat everything is wrong. A goat will CHEW on almost anything, but seldom will they eat a foreign object like plastic or metal. They will chew on stuff for hours and love aluiminum cans, but they don't eat this stuff. And if they do, get rid of that particular goat. They can NOT digest this stuff and will then have HARDWARE DISEASE, and either you pay a vet a large amount of $$$ to remove it, or they die, just like cattle. Goats are rumens, like cattle. They regurgitate and chew their cud. Don't feed them a fine food or corn chops. This will ball up in the rumen and can cause a BAD infection and a slow death. They need a GOOD horse quality hay in the winter, 1-2 flakes per day per head. This will keep their internal furnace going strong. A good hay is more important than any feed, they NEED the roughage. Make sure their shelter has a good bedding, NOT walnut, oak or cedar chips. Either use hay, straw or pine bedding. Other wood chips will have toxins in them. If you have a LOT of hickory and oak trees, try to keep the leaves out of the water, they will make the water poisonious, and try to limit the amount of dead leaves teh goats have access to, the toxins are higher in dead leaves than any other part of the tree. Goats will much more prefer shrubs, sprouts, sapplings and such over grass. Mine are in a grass lot with large trees, and they will NOT eat grass. Staking them out is fine, I have done that many times...just NEVER leave them unattended. Dogs are attracted to the noise goats make. I leave mine free in their lot 24/7 unless we are working on fenceing. They have access to an open 12x12 stall that I feed them in, and also has the salt & mineral tubs, and a heated tub for water in the winter time. During the summer, they drink from a metal bathtub I got from a free add in the paper. WORKS GREAT!!! Even for cattle & horses, too!! I have a seperate shelter that is about 4x4x4 with 1 open side and a shingle roof. This gives them something to jump on and play around and keeps them off the fence. Make sure your gates are close to poles on both sides and within 6" from the ground, or this will be turned into an escape route!!My fencing is a 48" tall woven wire with 1 strand of barbed wire along the top, and I use all means of gates...chain link, tube, aluminum, and pieces of HOG panels...whatever works. Goats are very disease and parasite resistant...however it would be wise to get a goat bolus wormer and worm them every winter just to be covered. Also, you want to check with a livestock vet in your area and see what vaccinations are recommended. Then go to www.jeffers.com or call 1-800-JEFFERS and order the LIVESTOCK catalog and the EQUINE catalog, they will have what you need for medical, vaccine, and first aid. I HIGHLY recommend you get a book called Storey's Guide to Goats. It has a LOT of good information and will help you get started. If your goats will have horns, it helps if you are going to stake them out. Otherwise, collars may fall off. Once they are use to you tho, you can simply take them for walks and outings much like you would little children, just take a small can of feed or treats to call them to you, should they start to wander. If my goats get out, they won't even leave the yard, unless a dog shows up, then all bets are off!!! They WILL wipe out flower beds and rose bushes in seconds!!! Start teaching them AS SOON as you get them to walk on a leash like a dog. This is very handy and will prepare them for being staked out. Otherwise, when you tie them out and they hit the end of the line, they can and will panic and will in a lot of cases injure or kill themselves trying to get away. They are a prey animal...THEY FLEE anything and everything is a predator to them...even a stake out line. Good luck. If you have any questions, give me a holler. HAVE FUN!!! They are GREAT pets!! My Godson Braydon LOVES them! LOL!! ALSO...for trimming the hooves, simply get a pait of nail pullers, they have a bite like wire cutting dikes, but they are across the top instead of tip to handle...I have some, I'll get a pic and send it to you tomorrrow. Just every 6 months, have someone help you hold them still and trim any of teh hard hoof off like you would fingernails. The bottom of the hoof is a soft pad, like the bottoms of your feet. You need to keep the tips trimmed and the outside edges. Its easy...if you have help to hold them still while you do it. I would NOT recommend breeding or milking or anything until you get at least a year of experience with them...a little something from every season. Visit people around you that have them and ASK questions, most will be happy to share info. I hope this has helped!!! heysmithys note: The original post contained several pictures here, which unfortunately could not be salvaged. Sorry.Dink, May 4, 2010 #6 |
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:16:46 GMT -7
Dink Well-Known Member
A little more Important information...
As far as milking goats, If they don't have babies, they don't have milk. You will simply milk a nanny while the kid is still nursing and for a few months after the kid is weaned, but I woiuld recommend letting her have a month or 2 break to dry up BEFORE she has another set of kids. Otherwise she will not produce the colostrum they need to survive. Also, do NOT milk her for about 1-2 weeks after the kids are born, so they get a good start and her teets will not be to sore. You can milk the meat breed, you just won't get as much. I have even milked my pygmy...just pick them up and stand them on a work bench so you don't break your back.
Do NOT pull on a goats horns for ANY reason!!! THIS makes them butt & ram at people. If you get a male and don't ever want to have them bred, get him banded by a vet or someone who knows how. Otherwise...the odor is ATROCIOUS!!! They will pee all over themselves all the time as an attractant to the females, and it is NASTY to say the least. I'll drop in as I remember stuff...Hope you don't mind!!
Dink, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:17:47 GMT -7
Screaming Eagle New Member
Dink,
Thank you so much for the great info. I do have a friend that's got lots of goats. He's more than willing to share info but he's been around them all his life. He just assumes that everyone knows everything he does.
How is stock salt different from other kinds of (rock?) salt?
I really didn't think they'd eat 'everything' as in cans etc. That never occurred to me. Briars, saplings and underbrush on about 2 acres (some grass) is what I intend to have them munching on during the day.
I don't think there are many dogs that run free in the place I'm going to. I'll have to watch it for a week or so before I stake them out. Good idea about training them to a leash. This sounds like fun.
I guess I don't have to worry about feeding them corn chops since I never heard of them ;-) Thanks again for the help. Does putting them in a chicken coop for protection at night make sense? My buddy says that will work.
Screaming Eagle, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:18:48 GMT -7
Dink Well-Known Member
Rock salt is treated with chemicals and people salt is not raw enough...it has been processed. Stock salt can be found at feed stores, just tell them you need a bag of loose stock salt. As for corn chops, it is finely ground up shell (whole) corn. Yes putting them in the coup at night is fine...BUT if they are little, a chicken will try to peck their eyes as they like to peck shiney objects. But if they can hold their head higher than a chicken can reach & you take them out during the day, it should't be a problem, just watch for signs of pecking.
I didn't think we had dogs around here in 1990 when we bought this place. About 2 months later, I walked out the back door to a shepard mix chewing on the neck of my nubian nanny milk goat. You can have milk breeds and breed them for more goats and not have to milk them. They will only make the milk required of them, like a cow does. If you never milk her, then when the kid is weaned, she will dry up. You can breed goats about 2x per year if you want to push them. And a young goat is tender and has a nice flavor...just don't let it get over 1 yr if your gonna eat it!!
As far as milking goats, If they don't have babies, they don't have milk. You will simply milk a nanny while the kid is still nursing and for a few months after the kid is weaned, but I woiuld recommend letting her have a month or 2 break to dry up BEFORE she has another set of kids. Otherwise she wil not produce the colostrum they need to survive. Also, do NOT milk her for about 1-2 weeks after the kids are born, so they get a good start ans her teets will not be to sore. You can milk the meat breed, you just won't get as much. I have even milked my pygmy...just pick them up and stand them on a work bench so you don't break your back.
Goats are a herd animal, so it is best to keep 2 or more together, just watch adding new ones. Quarentine them for about 2 weeks and worm them & vaccinate as you would your own. Then put them together. There will be fighting, they are sorting out a pecking order. Just make sure little ones don't get hurt. They are one of the easiest animals to have & care for. You'll do just fine, I'm sure.
Do NOT pull on a goats horns for ANY reason!!! THIS makes them butt & ram at people. If you get a male and don't ever want to have them bred, get him banmded by a vet or someone who knows how. Otherwise...the odor is ATROCIOUS!!! They will pee all over themselves all the time as an attractant to the females, and it is NASTY to say the least
Dink, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:23:27 GMT -7
stenmark78 New Member
I would never stake a goat.First its cruel...2nd its illegal and most of the states.At least in Yankeville.Hey dink your two dwarfs look like they could be sibblings of mine,LOL.......what kinda wormer are you using ivermicide or the goat pill form?I find the pill alittle harder to get down.
stenmark78, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:24:56 GMT -7
Dink Well-Known Member
Staking goats is not illegal in Missouri, its not cruel as long as they are use to it. It would be like tying a dog out. Its not cruel if done properly, but like everything else, everyone has a different opinion.
My goats don't walk, THEY WADDLE!!! LMAO!!!
I use the goat pill, I use a short bolus gun for calves, stradle their backs with someone behind them to keep them from backing up, hold their chin with their nose pointed to the sky and insert the bolus gun to the back of the mouth, just over the hump of their tongue, place it on the back of the tongue, remove the gun, and hold their head for a couple of minutes, they will take a minute or so and then swallow it on down. I tried the ivermectin liquid before, but found out they STILL had bots when another goats horn sheaths fell off. Goat ivermectin is not as strong as it probably should be, but its easyto OD & kill animals with it. And you should NEVER use cattle products on goats or sheep, unless it says that it is safe and whet the dosage is ON THE CONTAINER. That was a messed up deal!!! Its hard, doing the pills, but its once a year and its worth the hassle to keep them healthy...IMHO.
Dink, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:25:57 GMT -7
Screaming Eagle New Member
Thanks Dink. I'm keeping all of this info for reference.
Stenmark, If I had an option about whether or not to stake them, I'd do it. The property is not fenced and I'm not allowed to put fencing up. Might plant some blackberries/dewberries that will act as a natural fence but I can't (and don't really want to) put up fencing. I'm open for suggestions if you've got them. It may be that after they get used to the property boundaries that they'll respect them and I can let them wander as they will since they tend to stay close to home anyhow.
Dink, what's the deal with the salt? I'm guessing it's fortified somehow but I'm not sure how much to mix with their food or how often.
Screaming Eagle, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:26:27 GMT -7
Dink Well-Known Member
You don't mix the salt or minerals with their food. Just get a rubber feed tub from a farm supply store for each of them. Goats are like any other livestock, they need salt and minerals, but they need to have free access to them so they can eat it as they need it. They will only eat what they need, and can get to much or not enough if you add it to their feed. Just make sure there is always some available. I buy 1-50# bag of each per year for my 2 goats, sometimes not even that often, because they will eat less of it during cold months. I think it depends on the area and the forage as to how much they will consume. The more they consume, the more they are lacking from the forage they are getting, and it has nothing to do with what you feed them, unless they are on a dry lot. It has to do with the nutrioents the vegiotation is getting from the soil. I don't know why it works like it does, but it helps to keep them healthy. If they are loose on land with a natural salt lick, they will make regular trips there to eat it. All animals including humans need a certain amount of salt in their diet. Just put it out and let them eat what they want, and keep it from getting wet.
Dink, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:27:04 GMT -7
stenmark78 New Member
If u gaurantee there wont be any dogs or coyotes were your goat will be and you keep a watch on him every few days then its not cruel of course not thats silly to even consider.i personally have more respect for the animal and would not leave him tied to a lead that if he was to get attacked would be a sitting duck.But up here im sure we have much worse predators than you do SE.Goats are browsers not grazer to begin with so all the crap that you want to keep there prob gna eat lol,at least thats how mine always do it.I use a salt lick and a mineral lick.Alot of the licks lack copper which lamb/sheep shouldnt have and the goats need....yaddda yadda yaddaaa....if ya want some cool websites ill link em after for good goat pics.....good luck......and im currently using the pellet wormer and tetanus toxoid type c and d in the back of the neck
stenmark78, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:27:56 GMT -7
Screaming Eagle New Member
Sten,
I'll be bringing them into a largish chicken coop every evening and when I'm not personally there. They're not being abandoned by any means. Just being staked out (probably on a 50' light chain) in shaded areas. They can even lay down during the day if they take a notion to. I'm not going to stake them out unless I'm sure they'll be safe (as best I can).
I'd love to see the links you've got if you've found them to be useful and the info to be accurate.
Screaming Eagle, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:28:29 GMT -7
stenmark78 New Member
Goats as lawn mowers? - Homesteading Today Back to Basics Using Goats for Vegetation Management 3rd one is very good info
stenmark78, May 4, 2010
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Post by heysmithy on May 27, 2012 17:29:10 GMT -7
Dink Well-Known Member
Sten...I'm not sure if that was meant as sarcasm towards me or not, so I'm just gonna say .... To each his/her own. But try not to insult people when you REALLY don't know what they do or so not know for facts or from training. I have said I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING on the subject of farm animals, but I will share the knowledge I have. If a person is in dought, I feel e/she should contact their vet or local University Animal Hospital.
I have my information from first hand experience of owning goats for over 30 years, and from working with 5 different vets including a University Animal Hospital, not just coming to my place, but ACTUALLY working with them on farmcalls, in surgery clinics and in offices. Yes, goats need copper, but they get what they need from plant life, and an abundance such as would be in a CATTLE mineral supplement would be toxic. It builds up in their system and will harm them. They can take more copper in and show less signs of damage until its to late compared to sheep, so the best thing is to avoid EXTRA copper in supplements if the animal is going to have plenty of forage. Better safe than sorry. As for staking the animals out, They need to be supervised and locked up at night, and not left unattended (IE domestic dogs and coyotes as I stated)...but that is not being disrespectful. What WOULD be disrespectful is to get such an animal and lock it in a dry lot and NOT give it the chance to have SOME sort of access to the forage OUTSIDE its area. That would be akin to putting you in a large room with a window divider, give you bread and water to eat and set servings of steak & potaotoes, or WHATEVER it is you like to eat on the other side of the divider out of your reach. That would be torture to say the least. Staking a goat out to clear land is fine AS LONG AS ITS NOT LEFT UNATTENDED. And like I told SE, once the animal is use to you, you don't have to stake it, and can take it for outings so it can forage and it will remain with you (much like sheep do). I never suggested they were grazers...I ACTUALLY said my own goats will NOT eat grass but instead prefer brush, sapplings, etc.
I am not going to "Butt heads with you"...I am sorry if anything I say bothers you, but SE asked if ANYONE knows ANYTHING. I am simply sharing my TINY bit of knowledge. I to found your websites helpful. And do appreciate your point of view, It just seems like you are skimming over things said and then...YADDA YADDA at who...me? Thanks. Since you are the EXPERT and I obviously know nothing, well...feel free to correct anything I have said.
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SE, Sorry I had to highjack your thread there for a momnet. If you have any questions, please ask...I may not know everything, but I know enough to get you started and cover all the basics pretty well. And if you don't agree with something I say, THAT is your right as a free American and I have NO problem with that. Hope I haven't stepped on your toes. Good luck.
Dink, May 4, 2010
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Post by woodyz on May 27, 2012 18:08:57 GMT -7
We use Goats to clear land gone back to nature, they clear it from the ground up to as high as they can reach. They won't eat roots like horses do unless that's all they have left.
On that site I can't remember the name of, I had a post where I have five acres fenced some trees mostly farm gone to pasture. But test is going to be goats vs KUdzu. I have kudzu at the fence line on two sides. I want to see how many goats it will take to keep it at the fence line.
I know they will eat it, It is a soybean relative with 60% protein,I know if the leaves are kept off the vine will die, I have seen pastures where horses or cattle kept it in check.
So I am going to start with 20 goats and increase or decrease the number of goats to keep the Kudzu at the fence.
I also found a fenced pasture with some kudzu growing. but not a complete take over. I am going to but goats in there and see if I can reclaim that pasture.
My long term livestock plan includes goats, quail, and rabbits, plus the fish from the hydrophonic grow system.
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Post by orly152 on May 27, 2012 23:33:12 GMT -7
Thanks for digging those threads up.....lots of great info for the forum
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