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Post by mud on May 6, 2013 5:59:41 GMT -7
Since jumping on the reloading wagon some of us at work started a recipe swap. Be sure to include powdder type, bullet type and weight, powder charge, seat depth or overall length, primer type and barrel length and twist with accuracy/grouping info or pics. Mods maybe sticky this?
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Post by Cwi555 on May 6, 2013 7:38:26 GMT -7
Please post reputable manufacturers web site loading data (with the link) only in this thread.
No wildcat loads, or copyrighted material.
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Post by Cwi555 on May 6, 2013 16:49:27 GMT -7
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Post by marc on May 6, 2013 17:35:52 GMT -7
Please post reputable manufacturers web site loading data (with the link) only in this thread. No wildcat loads, or copyrighted material. Are we trying to avoid litigation or simply looking for a source that can be verified with Google? I'm not challenging authority, but it seems to me that some clever folks have come up with some clever stuff that might be interesting - including wildcats....... I'll bow out and be quiet now. |
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Post by Cwi555 on May 6, 2013 18:11:56 GMT -7
Please post reputable manufacturers web site loading data (with the link) only in this thread. No wildcat loads, or copyrighted material. Are we trying to avoid litigation or simply looking for a source that can be verified with Google? I'm not challenging authority, but it seems to me that some clever folks have come up with some clever stuff that might be interesting - including wildcats....... I'll bow out and be quiet now. It's a safety / responsibility concern. The probability of anyone successfully suing someone is miniscule. Not everyone is reloading savvy, and I think most would agree safety in reloading is important. Someone not so familiar with it reading a worked up load may out of ignorance decide to start with the pumped up load rather than the base load. I don't believe it either responsible, nor safe to post up that kind of thing. IMR, Hodgdon, Speer, etc, all have tried and true data that is 'safe'. |
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Post by woodyz on May 6, 2013 20:57:42 GMT -7
Even though I am a firm believer that each combination of weapon, shooter and "load" are different and I have my own custom loads, I agree 100% with CWI555 that the base manufactures load data is a must starting point for anyone attempting reloading. I have witnessed several cases where some experimental load either injured an individual or ruined a good weapon. The loads specified by the manufacture will produce results 99.9% of shooters require. The other .01% are looking for extreme accuracy and/or performance not needed for everyday shooting. I reload because I expect consistency I don't get from a factory load. I believe and expect every factory load shot from my rifle would kill a deer or whatever. I reload because I want to know when I pull the trigger I will hit an eyeball, if I and the weapon are capable of it (sadly I no longer am,  but I still reload my shells) Those shooters in the .01% will be at a range somewhere often enough to find an old guy, with a lot of reloading experience to learn from. IMO if anyone comes right out an suggests a custom load for you to use, stay away from that individual. Sensible people will work their way from a factory to a custom load with many hours spent shooting targets and sitting at the reloaded cutting powder grains. My loads work great. FOR ME and the weapon I shoot them in, I even have some different loads in the same caliber I shoot from different weapons. But I spent years finding the right combination. A 3006 is one of the most versatile calibers I have ever seen, with an entire catalog of loads. I load a different combination for a Winchester than I do for a Remington and another for a Savage, its a personal thing. As a comparison, some people believe they can pick up a scoped rifle someone else has sighted in and make the same shots with it. NOT TRUE. While anyone may be able to hit the bulls eye with one of my scoped rifles they won't make the same shots. Loads are the same IMO. The load my .243 shoots best with, might miss a pie pan at 100 yards in yours. If the site doesn't count monitors please remove. It allows you to select a caliber and a bullet weight. www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=243%20Winchester&Weight=85&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=Guest |
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Post by mud on May 7, 2013 6:14:54 GMT -7
Yup though poorly stated initially my intent was loads from manuals some of us do not have.
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Post by woodyz on May 7, 2013 10:45:47 GMT -7
Sorry but I can't leave this alone, I really like reloading and the satisfaction I get when it all comes together and it is great. Part of the load is also the setting of the bullet, how far does the bullet push into the brass, does it compress the powder, does the bullet touch the lands and groves in the bore? So many different combinations of many things that make a difference with the load. With the exception of homemade lead bullets, I never use anything but Sierra Bullets, either matchking or gameking, depending on my intent. They propabaly costs more than some others but it’s like a load, it’s an individual/personal thing. I only use one specific type of brass, primer and brand powder for each different load. I didn’t reload any new .243 shells for a year and a half when I couldn’t find the primers I wanted. Now that said. From a reload after SHTF situation, I have loads worked out using any brass, primer, etc. I have found powder I can use the same brand just different amounts. But I will also only reload a few calibers, I can use the same powder for handgun and shotgun reloads. Lead bullets I make will be only a few calibers and all just one weight, were now I use several weights depending on application. Reloading for survival takes a total different mindset. I am going to use hand cast lead, a standard powder and a standard load. I will not load for every firearm I could load for and I have looked at an tried generic loads that put the bullet down range with enough predictability to want to repeat it. I have worked it out so I only have one powder brand/type I will use for both handgun and shot shell reloading and I have worked out loads for the thee rifle calibers I will use after SHTF, where powder and primers are the same all around. I never imagined ever being out of ammo until this last goberment manufactured shortage occurred. And although I feel like I have what I need, I will be buying a few extra boxes now and then. Also when it comes to reloading or anything to do with bullets you can’t go wrong reading Chuck Hawkswww.chuckhawks.com/index2.guns.htmBut that is just my opinion. |
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Post by marc on May 7, 2013 16:50:46 GMT -7
Sorry - I missed the intent of Mud's original post. I assumed that anyone reloading should already know the potentially deadly results of being stupid. There are some really clever folks here and I wondered if maybe some had come up with some good, but undocumented loads.
I also assumed that all of us do "sanity checks" before actually implementing something suggested on the internet, because we sometimes discuss unconventional ideas - some of them most certainly potentially dangerous.
Point taken.......................
Marc
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Post by Cwi555 on May 7, 2013 17:00:27 GMT -7
Never underestimate the power of stupidity.
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Post by marc on May 7, 2013 17:17:49 GMT -7
Never underestimate the power of stupidity. I most certainly agree, but I view this site as a cut above the background noise of average stupidity. It is my considered opinion that folks here are smarter than the average bear. Unlike some folks, I don't participate in other sites on the internet. This is the one that has members that I respect. Pretty simple, really - so I'll stop beating this topic to death. Marc |
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Post by Cwi555 on May 7, 2013 17:33:51 GMT -7
Never underestimate the power of stupidity. I most certainly agree, but I view this site as a cut above the background noise of average stupidity. It is my considered opinion that folks here are smarter than the average bear. Unlike some folks, I don't participate in other sites on the internet. This is the one that has members that I respect. Pretty simple, really - so I'll stop beating this topic to death. Marc That I agree with. |
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Post by mud on May 7, 2013 19:09:28 GMT -7
So far I am playing more with seating depth with suggested charges. Each formula has a minimum overall case length which is the point pressures become dangerous. As soon as I locate an online resource for the load I am working on I will add it. Woodyz and I are kindred on where the projectile sits
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Post by woodyz on May 8, 2013 16:43:55 GMT -7
Read more: survivalbunker.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=hunt&thread=5083&page=1#ixzz2SkDnYMQeFor mud: I establish my bullet seat by painting a bullet with a felt tip pin, Then I fit it into brass with no powder and chamber it until when I rotate the bolt I can see the lines of contact and and rotation on the black from the marker. I don't want it to peel the copper, but almost. Then with the powder I use at that seating depth, it just packs the powder a little bit. Some loads I weigh and measure every load, some just every five. In other words I want the bullet to be just pushing the bore and just being pushed by the powder. To do that you have to try different burn rate powder, never ever load any caliber brass with powder based on how much it will hold. I know to most that sounds stupid, but I have met people who did just that. We were shooting clay birds recently and one two guys kept having ejection problems in two different shotguns. They were using the same box of shells and it didn't take long to figure out the idiot reloading though more was better. When he said. "sometimes it won't hold all of the shot and I have to trim the wad some so it will crimp." I just could not believe someone could be so stupid. His powder charge was based on how much he could pack it down so the wad would crimp. And when I explained to him about the powder measure and the shot charge he said he didn't use it because there was always room left in the shell. I just couldn't believe it, I have never met anyone reloading who couldn't read and never thought to ask how. But they exist and that is exactly what CWI555 is trying to prevent. Someone who will just take some numbers and start dumping powder. For the solid lead bullets I cast I just set up the powder measure and run a hundred or so through, they won't be accurate enough to rate spending the extra time on. I don't mean not safety checking the load, I mean customizing the powder on home poured bullets isn't going to make much difference unless you do a custom job on the bullet itself also. I also like to work up undercharged loads, especially in the 308 and 7.62x39 loads. Being able to keep 3/4 of an inch at 75 yards and not break the sound barrier doing it, has some advantages  They won't cycle a semi-auto weapon, but short ranges in a bolt gun, with a minimum of noise can be fun. When working up such a load, keep the barrel clean and check for obstructions after each shot until you find what works best in that weapon, they are all different in giving up their sweet spot for both fast and slow loads IMO. But if you can find it, wow. |
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Post by woodyz on May 9, 2013 12:30:36 GMT -7
I wanted to add I have also worked up some loads using "other" easily melted metals. Just in case a bullet becomes more valuable than a "gold" ring to survival.
Most purchased bullets are of a copper jacket around a lead core, one I am aware of is solid copper, and most everyone is aware of solid lead.
Almost anything that can be melted and poured into the lead mold could be used. Most of the items I have tried weigh less then the lead or lead core we are used to. A load is worked up that will not only propel but stabilize the projectile at a distance and with the accuracy the user requires.
Just sayin'
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but I still reload my shells) 
