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Post by Dennis on Nov 20, 2012 13:49:20 GMT -7
Thanks for a great link.
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Post by kutkota on Nov 20, 2012 14:20:15 GMT -7
We just disagree, but very much understand what your saying. Not everyone will have just the right clothing. That being said,have the best clothing you can afford and learn how to build a shelter just in case  Or, learn how to build the right clothing just in case.  I agree that everyone should learn to build a large variety of shelters just in case they don't have the right clothing on during a given situation. That is exactly my point - if you have the right clothing on, you won't have to build a shelter, just in case. On the other hand, if you don't have the right clothing on (due to poor preparation and planning) then you'll need to turn to building shelters as a way of supplementing an inadequate clothing system. In terms of buying the best clothing a person can afford, I just want to point out (for everyone's benefit) that cost and the effectiveness of clothing have very little to do with each other (in spite of what the marketing folks at outdoor gear companies would have people believe). Too many people incorrectly assume that there is a linear positive correlation between an item's price and its overall usefulness, effectiveness, quality, etc. When a person properly understands the correct principles, they can make their own gear (for pennies on the dollar) or utilize cheap alternatives that will outperform even the most expensive gear on the market. Throwing more money at the problem isn't necessarily the way to reach the best solution. Onidah I agree with you to a point but I think you are taking a very large and dangerous asumption that everyone, your self included can not only prep for but have at the ready every piece of the puzzle needed in every circumstance. It is of higher probability that you would be able to survive with shelter no matter how simply or awkwardly built than you would if you only relied on your clothing. How many people carry around four seasons worth of gear. It is a practical impropability. I liked the link though. I will watch more later. |
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Post by onidah on Nov 21, 2012 0:54:25 GMT -7
Or, learn how to build the right clothing just in case. I agree that everyone should learn to build a large variety of shelters just in case they don't have the right clothing on during a given situation. That is exactly my point - if you have the right clothing on, you won't have to build a shelter, just in case. On the other hand, if you don't have the right clothing on (due to poor preparation and planning) then you'll need to turn to building shelters as a way of supplementing an inadequate clothing system. In terms of buying the best clothing a person can afford, I just want to point out (for everyone's benefit) that cost and the effectiveness of clothing have very little to do with each other (in spite of what the marketing folks at outdoor gear companies would have people believe). Too many people incorrectly assume that there is a linear positive correlation between an item's price and its overall usefulness, effectiveness, quality, etc. When a person properly understands the correct principles, they can make their own gear (for pennies on the dollar) or utilize cheap alternatives that will outperform even the most expensive gear on the market. Throwing more money at the problem isn't necessarily the way to reach the best solution. Onidah I agree with you to a point but I think you are taking a very large and dangerous assumption that everyone, your self included can not only prep for but have at the ready every piece of the puzzle needed in every circumstance. It is of higher probability that you would be able to survive with shelter no matter how simply or awkwardly built than you would if you only relied on your clothing. How many people carry around four season’s worth of gear? It is a practical improbability. I liked the link though. I will watch more later. Clothing is shelter, just ready-made, portable, and perfectly-sized. There really aren't many possible circumstances, nor many pieces of the puzzle that are necessary to be fully prepared in terms of clothing. The things you might need to worry about are cold, wet, windy, hot, dry, or some combination of these conditions. The good thing is that there is quite a bit of overlap on the preparations necessary for the various possible combinations. The layering concept also makes it easy to deal with changing combinations of the various conditions. As for carrying around four season's worth of gear. I guess you could if you planned on being in a survival situation for an entire year or more. Clothing for hot dry conditions doesn't weigh much or take up much space. The same goes for clothing that keeps you dry and out of the wind (could even be the same gear). The one that weighs more and takes up more space is the gear necessary for cold weather survival. A full set of the open-cell foam clothing (which would keep a person comfortably warm from -60 degrees to about +45 degrees) weighs about 12-15 pounds and fits in a military duffle bag with room to spare. Now, for most situations, would a person really need to carry clothing for every possible weather combination? Not really. They would only need to carry enough to be protected from the worst (in terms of wet, cold, hot, dry, or windy) that could happen at their location during the season of the year that they will be there. When I go backpacking in the Wind River Range in Wyoming in August, I go prepared for blizzard conditions and possible temperatures in the teens, because they aren't uncommon at that time of the year. A 1/2 inch layer of open-cell foam (top and bottom) weighs less than 3 pounds and compresses down to the size of a volleyball. This layer of insulation keeps me comfortably warm (without any shelter or external heat source) down to about zero degrees. I also prepare for hot weather and the brutal sun in the Wind River Range, due to the high altitudes. On the other hand, when I go quail hunting in the southern Arizona desert during the hot times of the year, I obviously don't have to worry about preparing for blizzard conditions, so I leave the cold weather gear at home. Light-colored, loose-fitting clothing provides the critical shelter from the sun and heat. However, I do bring an insulative layer of some kind since the temperatures can plummet at night. I guess I'm just the odd one, but in a cold-weather survival situation my body doesn't care if it is in a large warm shelter (something I've simply or awkwardly built) or a body-sized one (my personal mobile shelter or clothing). All it cares about is that it is in a warm space. In a high-wind situation, my body doesn't care if it is in a large shelter (something I've simply or awkwardly built) or a body sized wind shelter (my personal mobile shelter). All it cares about is that it is out of the wind and not loosing either heat and/or moisture to the wind. If I'm in a high-temperature survival situation, my body doesn't care if I'm in a large, shaded shelter (something I've simply or awkwardly built) or in a small shaded and UV protected zone that is created by my clothing (personal mobile shelter). All it cares about is that it isn't getting sunburned and that it isn't losing moisture quicker than I can replace it. As long as I'm controlling the climate immediately around my body, it is happy and functions the way that it should. My clothing is my first line of defense in survival situations. If a person is properly prepared for the weather conditions (something that is quite easy to do given the amount of historical weather data that is available for just about any place on the planet) their clothing should be all that they would need to survive. Now, am I advocating that people not learn how to build shelters? No. I repeat that everyone should learn to build a large variety of shelters in case they don't have the right clothing or if something were to happen to that clothing (i.e., catches on fire, gets stolen, tears beyond repair, floats away after your raft capsizes). If you are prepared to be comfortable (via clothing - your personal mobile shelter) at a given location for the worst weather that has ever occurred during the time of year you will be there, then you won't have to waste time and energy building shelters. Of course you still may want to build a shelter, just to give you something to do in a survival situation, but you won't have to build a shelter in order to keep from dying. Give some thought to what it would take to develop a personal mobile shelter for your neck of the woods that would exclude the need to build another shelter in either a short-term or long-term survival situation. What articles of clothing would you need to sufficiently prepare for the extremes in your part of the world in terms of cold, wet, hot, dry, and windy? I think you'll be surprised at how few items it would actually take. Once you have that list put together, what items would you need to sustain that personal mobile shelter kit (wash, mend, repair, etc.) for a long duration? Onidah |
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