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Post by sirderrin on Oct 14, 2013 16:03:24 GMT -7
I really doubt that enough lead is entering the environment from varmint shooting and meat hunting to have any real effect..... My personal experience makes me call b.s.because 90% plus of the time the bullet passes through and does not stay in the critter. The exception to that is shotgun pellets and squirrels and small game birds. Rarely a .22 ball if using shorts or bb caps to hunt. I could buy into the lead effecting water fowl from shooting and fishing back in the day but now it is all steel shot. I hate steel shot per say and think it is rough on the barrels. news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131014-lead-ammunition-ban-condor-california-science/?google_editors_picks=true |
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 14, 2013 16:45:12 GMT -7
I really doubt that enough lead is entering the environment from varmint shooting and meat hunting to have any real effect..... My personal experience makes me call b.s.because 90% plus of the time the the bullet passes through and does not stay in the critter. The exception to that is shotgun pellets and squirrels and small game birds. Rarely a .22 ball if using shorts or bb caps to hunt. I could buy into the lead effecting water fowl from shooting and fishing back in the day but now it is all steel shot. I hate steel shot per say and think it is rough on the barrels. news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131014-lead-ammunition-ban-condor-california-science/?google_editors_picks=trueThey will not be satisfied until all firearms and ammunition are banned. This is just another direction to attack from. |
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Post by USCGME2 on Oct 14, 2013 16:59:05 GMT -7
Steel shot is hard on the ducks too. Many cripples because the shot does not malform. Bismuth shot is horrible expensive. Wonder if they banned all lead weights for fishing too?
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 14, 2013 17:12:13 GMT -7
Steel shot is hard on the ducks too. Many cripples because the shot does not malform. Bismuth shot is horrible expensive. Wonder if they banned all lead weights for fishing too? Not yet. Maine has stricter rules on that than California at the moment. American Sportfishing Association |
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Post by offtrail on Oct 14, 2013 21:26:05 GMT -7
I'm not sure what to think, but I do know this lead is deadly poisonous. I don't think anyone can argue with that statement. Lead being consumed by predators become sick, is that a true statement? If so where do we go from here, can we not come to some kind of agreement. Not to far left and not to far right but straight down the middle. In the mean time someone should be inventing a good alternative for lead ammo i'm sure it can be done.I can tell you this,when I go metal detecting I always find lead bullets so they are out there. If it is a big problem then we should be willing to come to some agreement. As for personal protection, lead should still be used, as it will not be used for hunting. If caught in the field with lead ammo you get a ticket. I know you all think i'm nuts, but instead of whining and crying about it i'm trying to come up with some ideas
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Post by thywar on Oct 15, 2013 1:41:24 GMT -7
While I understand their concerns I think they're way off base. I agree with CWI that this is just another way to make it harder on the hunter and shooter. If that is a hunting problem why isn't it a fishing problem as previously mentioned. If one fishes with lead weights or sinkers aren't you 'polluting' the waters every time you cast it? How many sinkers are lost every year in lakes and streams? Seems like we should be harvesting fish for their precious metals... Lead and mercury! I gew up with lead paint in school classrooms and probably one or two lead pipes into water fountains.
I'm glad progress has been made but this is overreach. Again!
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Post by jmarshnh on Oct 15, 2013 4:38:57 GMT -7
NH prohibits the use of lead sinkers 1 oz or less and lead jigs 1" or shorter along its longest axis. Last year they (loon preservation society) claimed lead attributed to 52% of all loon mortalities in the state. This year, now they have the lead law passed for fishing, the claim is possibly 10-50% mortality rate. Lead sinkers and jigs that fit the above category are also illegal to sell in the state.
Jim
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Post by sirderrin on Oct 15, 2013 5:33:16 GMT -7
I actually agree with you in principle O.T. I disagree with their reasoning behind the ban. I also metal detect and I find large amounts of lead/babbit. The vast majority of what I find is from one form or another of industrial usage. Think farms and blacksmithing shops etc... There is literally thousands of tons of industrial lead in the ground and water.... I would like to see a good viable alternative to lead being used for everything... I do not buy that hunting is the primary source of the lead issues they are seeing in wildlife. The waterfowl and how they actually ingested the lead I could buy into from fishing and hunting but not wildlife in general. I'm not sure what to think, but I do know this lead is deadly poisonous. I don't think anyone can argue with that statement. Lead being consumed by predators become sick, is that a true statement? If so where do we go from here, can we not come to some kind of agreement. Not to far left and not to far right but straight down the middle. In the mean time someone should be inventing a good alternative for lead ammo i'm sure it can be done.I can tell you this,when I go metal detecting I always find lead bullets so they are out there. If it is a big problem then we should be willing to come to some agreement. As for personal protection, lead should still be used, as it will not be used for hunting. If caught in the field with lead ammo you get a ticket. I know you all think i'm nuts, but instead of whining and crying about it i'm trying to come up with some ideas |
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Post by offtrail on Oct 15, 2013 9:52:52 GMT -7
I actually agree with you in principle O.T. I disagree with their reasoning behind the ban. I also metal detect and I find large amounts of lead/babbit. The vast majority of what I find is from one form or another of industrial usage. Think farms and blacksmithing shops etc... There is literally thousands of tons of industrial lead in the ground and water.... I would like to see a good viable alternative to lead being used for everything... I do not buy that hunting is the primary source of the lead issues they are seeing in wildlife. The waterfowl and how they actually ingested the lead I could buy into from fishing and hunting but not wildlife in general. I'm not sure what to think, but I do know this lead is deadly poisonous. I don't think anyone can argue with that statement. Lead being consumed by predators become sick, is that a true statement? If so where do we go from here, can we not come to some kind of agreement. Not to far left and not to far right but straight down the middle. In the mean time someone should be inventing a good alternative for lead ammo i'm sure it can be done.I can tell you this,when I go metal detecting I always find lead bullets so they are out there. If it is a big problem then we should be willing to come to some agreement. As for personal protection, lead should still be used, as it will not be used for hunting. If caught in the field with lead ammo you get a ticket. I know you all think i'm nuts, but instead of whining and crying about it i'm trying to come up with some ideas I can understand how ducks and water birds ingest lead pellets from shotshells and to a lesser degree lead fishing weights. I watched a duck the other day use it's feet to stir up the sediment. Then it turned upside down and did some feeding. There is no doubt in my mind that ducks have to be eating some lead pellets, because of the small size. It's possible i believe to keep both sides happy if we can get the special interest groups out of the way. |
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Post by thywar on Oct 15, 2013 10:00:54 GMT -7
It's the special interest groups who have stirred the pot.. so getting them out of the way won't be an easy thing to do. It's the anti hunters against the hunters and the tree huggers/environmentalists against common sense. I'm thinking if their range on some of this is between 10% and 50% then they don't have enough information.
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Post by sirderrin on Oct 15, 2013 11:03:57 GMT -7
IMHO special interest groups is the root of almost all evil legislation and laws.... A vocal minority inflicting its wishes on a majority that usually has no clue what is happening until it is to late... It's the special interest groups who have stirred the pot.. so getting them out of the way won't be an easy thing to do. It's the anti hunters against the hunters and the tree huggers/environmentalists against common sense. I'm thinking if their range on some of this is between 10% and 50% then they don't have enough information. |
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Post by graf on Oct 15, 2013 14:30:55 GMT -7
What do you expect from a bunch of tree huggers, why the feds think they need to follow the tree huggers thoughts is beyond me. Most every idea that originates there is pretty stupid to the rest of the world and cost everyone more $$$ and they wonder why they are bankrupt.
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