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Post by kutkota on Nov 7, 2013 8:19:06 GMT -7
Well I have it, now time to use it. What is everyone doing for home defense as well as for "outside " defense when it comes to loads. I understand the basics as far as shotguns are concerned but that is about it. I still think do to the accessability of my pistol it will be the go to home defense gun but if I have time to retreieve the shot gun I would suppose it would be the one I want ? Any opinions on home defense gun and rounds aregreat. I have two young kids and my bed room is behind , as you walk down the hall, to one of the kids bedrooms so I am slightly concerned on penetration of both the bad guy as well as the drywall and my kids. Any ideas or thoughts are great.
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Post by USCGME2 on Nov 7, 2013 10:38:46 GMT -7
To me, long guns for inside defense are less than ideal. My .02 only. In tight quarters like my house, the maneuverability of a handgun is unmatched. Besides, the longest shot you will use inside the house may be 20 ft?? Whats that, about 7 yds max? Even at that range, there is still alot of kinetic energy and a tight pattern w/ a shottie in which even 7 1/2 shot will penetrate right thru drywall. Yes, pistol rounds will also penetrate, however Im not sacrificing maneuverability too. I dont want to use rubber shot or bean bags either for liability reasons. If Im employing a firearm in SD, lead comin out the business end! Id say when Mr Azz Hatt comes for your women and children, pick up your pistole first - shottie second. From the porch forward, nothing says get off my lawn like a racked 12! Personally, I like 00 and low recoil slugs. If you have never tried them, they are a pleasure to shoot over their hyped up full load cousins. The only consideration with 00 is that there are nine projectiles and we are responsible for where each one lands. Again, all this is just a nickle's worth of free opinion.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 6:32:21 GMT -7
Like USCGME2 I like 00 or even single 0 Have my 870 Rem. with the 18 1/2" bbl but just last week picked up a Stevens 320 tactical.
I like to peperment load with stacking like a #6 then 00 or #4 then 00 and alternate this till full.
Duplex loads like #4/6 combo or Turkey loads work well also. You don't need any of those circus loads,(the flash bang, flame throwers, fletcets airial bombs, flaires) you know the ones every gun show as some body selling them. If you don't want to or cant find 00 or single 0 stick with #6 or #4. What is fun is reloading your own hulls and working a load that suites you and your gun.
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Post by missasip on Nov 10, 2013 8:28:35 GMT -7
Rest assured a 12 with a 7 1/2 field load at ranges encountered within ones home will do the job, without quite as much wall penetration. Easier to handle. More loads using 2 3/4 shells. Though I have that 835 stoked with 3 1/2 00 buck, a 40 and an old single shot 12 with 7 1/2 are what I'll engage with.
Jimmy
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Post by marc on Nov 10, 2013 10:45:44 GMT -7
I completely agree about basic 7-1/2 bird shot being more than adequate for up close and personal. I constantly see articles saying that it may not be lethal, but I suspect that those folks just haven't shot enough stuff at close range to know. I know exactly what it does at close range to drywall, plywood, lumber, bricks, cinder blocks, car doors - especially with back-to-back rounds. (The fun side of a misspent youth) My 6 shooters feel like an extension of my hands. I'm actually pretty good with them because I shoot them a lot, including out to 50-60 yards with the longer barreled. With all of that muscle memory and reflexive practice, I realistically know that I may only land one on target under the very real pressure of a shooting scenario. Even with the pattern still being very, tight at close range, my odds of causing serious damage are better with 12ga. When the dogs tell me that there is a problem outside, I generally reach for the 12 ga with #4 or #5 bird loaded in it. It's not likely that I'll have an indoor problem without a warning, but that would be when I reached for a revolver. My wife is a native Texas girl who is deadly with her .357 snubby, so unless I think she really needs help, I'll just let her handle it.  |
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Post by Besttracker on Nov 10, 2013 11:18:12 GMT -7
I completely agree about basic 7-1/2 bird shot being more than adequate for up close and personal. I constantly see articles saying that it may not be lethal, but I suspect that those folks just haven't shot enough stuff at close range to know. I know exactly what it does at close range to drywall, plywood, lumber, bricks, cinder blocks, car doors - especially with back-to-back rounds. (The fun side of a misspent youth) My 6 shooters feel like an extension of my hands. I'm actually pretty good with them because I shoot them a lot, including out to 50-60 yards with the longer barreled. With all of that muscle memory and reflexive practice, I realistically know that I may only land one on target under the very real pressure of a shooting scenario. Even with the pattern still being very, tight at close range, my odds of causing serious damage are better with 12ga. When the dogs tell me that there is a problem outside, I generally reach for the 12 ga with #4 or #5 bird loaded in it. It's not likely that I'll have an indoor problem without a warning, but that would be when I reached for a revolver. My wife is a native Texas girl who is deadly with her .357 snubby, so unless I think she really needs help, I'll just let her handle it. Bird shot and BBs' are great for "phone booth fighting" and adequate for 90% of close in encounters . Double oo buck mixed with #4 buck are in my Ithica 37 and the Browning High power or Glock 40 goes everywhere with me . peace and love |
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Post by woodyz on Nov 10, 2013 12:45:36 GMT -7
I always have a 9MM on me, when I am asleep one is velco-ed to the bed. I pick it up by reflex, even if its just the phone ringing or I need a potty break. Everyone should have a couple of these universal holsters, a small strip of glue on velco above the door on the inside of a closet, in a cabinet, under a table or desk. It will hold a full sized Browning Hi-power and I have never had one fall. Any where you can stick a strip of velco you can hide a handgun. www.amazon.com/Black-Universal-Holster-Hook-Taigear/dp/B003RXK8OA/ref=sr_1_2/191-7119672-9718849?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1384112103&sr=1-2&keywords=universal+holsterBut, even though the 9 will be with me if it is a home defense situation it will be a short barreled 870 I will pickup. While I keep a round in the chamber of my handguns I purposely don't have one in the 870. Racking the 870 is the last chance for someone to call out who they are. Everyone will recognize that sound. Pushing the safety to fire turns on a barrel mounted light (red lens) so I can still see in the dark. I preach about backlighting almost everyday, my family knows better than to turn a light on behind me if I am looking out a window or if I go out side. All of the wall space and any yard hiding spots are covered by lights with motion detectors and I know where I can see from but not be seen as the light will be in the intruders face. The load starts with a 3" 00, then a 1 oz ball slug w/00, and repeat. I want the slug option if I want to shoot through a window, wall or car door. I know how its loaded and I can skip a slug if I need too. If I shoot I will mean for it to be serious. When I talk through this it always comes up about penetration and going through walls into bedrooms behind where I shoot. That's why my bedroom is located where it is. If I am coming out of my bedroom the other bedrooms are already behind me and if the disturbance is coming from behind me I don't take the shotgun, I have the 9. |
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Post by kutkota on Nov 10, 2013 18:54:31 GMT -7
Woodyz is that red light something you rigged up or is it a store bought deal? Sounds interesting to atleast take a look at. I agree with the motion lights. I have recently invested in a decent number of them. Thanks for all the replies as far as the shotgun for home defense.
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Post by marc on Nov 10, 2013 19:18:11 GMT -7
I have taken my 16 gauge shells removed the shot and replaced with fish hooks, for in home use. It will not go through the perpetrator however it will mame them and make them wish they choose another home. Not something I would do, and I would suggest not putting that in writing. Intentionally maiming another person will generate sympathy from many a juror and judge while making a really good case for prosecutors to penetrate a self defense plea. I can just hear a prosecutor now: "This wasn't self defense because he wasn't trying to stop the guy, he just wanted to hurt him as some sort of punishment for making a mistake. He obviously wasn't in fear for his life - he lay in wait for a chance to use his horrific torture device. The man even bragged about the maiming potential of his deviousness." If you really insist on just wanting to injure someone to slow them down without killing him at first, use one of the well known less-than-lethal rounds. This is a weird world that we live in today..........one where the victim of a crime gets nailed for being too rough! |
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Post by woodyz on Nov 10, 2013 19:46:26 GMT -7
www.firequest.com/less-lethal-ammo.htmlwww.conceptsinammunition.com/Specialty_Rounds/Index.htmwww.firearmstalk.com/entries/Less-Lethal-Rounds-101.htmlI agree reloading anything can get you into trouble if you shoot someone with it. I use reloads for practice and factory ammo for business. Todays courts will turn things inside out in a heartbeat. Which is the same reason I won't use a less lethal round for home defense. Here I have a good established castle doctrine, If I pull the trigger it will be to kill, period. But I do understand some people don't want to kill if they can help it and in my opinion those who can't/won't kill need to get factory less lethal like in the links above. The red lens you can get for almost any flashlight, it lets you see in the dark with out making you blind. I understand someone close to you will be able to see the red light, it doesn't make your light invisible it just lets you keep your night vision. Connecting it to the safety was done by my armour son n law. I will try and get him to explain how he does it and if I can understand it I will pass it on, its something they started doing where he works. I know it involves wiring that makes a contact when the safety moves, but I don't know exactly how. It doesn't seem to matter if the safety is like the 870 behind the trigger or up where you thumb pushes it, they seem to be able to do it on most any safety. And I have no idea if it would some how effect a warranty, although the place he works does warranty work on most everything. I'll try and find out.
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Post by woodyz on Nov 10, 2013 19:51:55 GMT -7
We had a time with our motion lights. Got them all set like we wanted and all of a sudden they were coming on all hours of the night and there was never anything there. After several frustrating nights I found rabbit pellets up on a half wall. We have rabbits running loose in the bottom below the house and as they expanded their exploring they started coming around the house. Why they want to get up on the half wall I don't know but they do. We just raised the Motion detection beam a little higher, so if you were to low crawl up to the house you might not set my lights off.  |
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Post by thywar on Nov 10, 2013 19:59:47 GMT -7
Yeah but I'd be worried about the alternative at your house. Lights are one thing, hot lead or some 1967 booby trap is another thing entirely. :-)
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Post by woodyz on Nov 10, 2013 20:27:58 GMT -7
Yeah but I'd be worried about the alternative at your house. Lights are one thing, hot lead or some 1967 booby trap is another thing entirely. :-) There you go. If you get past the night lights and see a big flash then everything is black, that was me. No bobby traps, at least not in "whatever normal is" bobby traps are illegal. Besides! The rabbits kept setting them off.  |
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Post by Besttracker on Nov 11, 2013 9:01:39 GMT -7
I'll worry about the court system AFTER the business of defending my home is taken care of .
When that last shovel of dirt is tossed on the victims grave , it's a little too late to worry about the legalities of defending oneself .
The old adage - Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 comes to mind and there's a good chance the evidence will disappear .
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Post by kutkota on Nov 11, 2013 9:34:15 GMT -7
www.firequest.com/less-lethal-ammo.htmlThe red lens you can get for almost any flashlight, it lets you see in the dark with out making you blind. I understand someone close to you will be able to see the red light, it doesn't make your light invisible it just lets you keep your night vision. Connecting it to the safety was done by my armour son n law. I will try and get him to explain how he does it and if I can understand it I will pass it on, its something they started doing where he works. I know it involves wiring that makes a contact when the safety moves, but I don't know exactly how. It doesn't seem to matter if the safety is like the 870 behind the trigger or up where you thumb pushes it, they seem to be able to do it on most any safety. And I have no idea if it would some how effect a warranty, although the place he works does warranty work on most everything. I'll try and find out. Thanks, I get the general Idea now. I am familiar with the red lense. I like the safety activated light. I might play around a little when I get some free time(hahaha) and see if I can figure something out. Thanks a ton. |
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