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Post by crashdive123 on Nov 29, 2013 16:32:49 GMT -7
As to the solar still ----
Even if you produce less than 1/2 cup per still per day, setting up several can produce enough to keep you alive. I keep one of those flimsy painters tarp rolls in my kit and there is enough trash (plastic bottles, aluminum cans etc) in far too many places that can be fashioned into collection cups. Granted, you aren't going to fill a swimming pool with them but just like collecting dew with a bandanna it might be the difference between having the ability to keep fighting or not.
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Post by Besttracker on Nov 29, 2013 17:20:38 GMT -7
As to the solar still ---- Even if you produce less than 1/2 cup per still per day, setting up several can produce enough to keep you alive. I keep one of those flimsy painters tarp rolls in my kit and there is enough trash (plastic bottles, aluminum cans etc) in far too many places that can be fashioned into collection cups. Granted, you aren't going to fill a swimming pool with them but just like collecting dew with a bandanna it might be the difference between having the ability to keep fighting or not. Am in total disagreement with you regarding solar stills .How many sheets of plastic would one need to create enough solar stills to collect enough water to survive on ? So much of this scenario and various scenarios are based on climate - geographic location - ambient temp - vegetation - rainfall - snow and other factors . I won't throw credentials on the altar of making a point and one can travel miles and miles without coming upon pop bottles and water collection devices . Ask oneself a few questions Am I injured ? - How injured am I ? - Do I have the stamina - the psychological and physical reserve to keep on going and get to a source of REAL water ? Do I stay here and attempt to collect far less water to keep me alive than I might obtain by kicking myself in the @zz and keep going ? In some situations , one is better off staying put . In Many....many situations , one is best served by hauling said @zz - stop crying and push oneself to the extreme . This is not a back porch scenario . One has to do the math - the stats and make a decision regarding the situation at hand and come up with the best approach based on what they have to deal with . I have had the honor of speaking with downed air crew and pilots . I was on a PAR team in Laos and Vietnam . The best quote in my repertoire of quotes is -> I got tired of ****ing around with the experts and their books and decided to extricate my "@zz" from a really crappy situation . |
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Post by crashdive123 on Nov 29, 2013 18:04:42 GMT -7
As to the solar still ---- Even if you produce less than 1/2 cup per still per day, setting up several can produce enough to keep you alive. I keep one of those flimsy painters tarp rolls in my kit and there is enough trash (plastic bottles, aluminum cans etc) in far too many places that can be fashioned into collection cups. Granted, you aren't going to fill a swimming pool with them but just like collecting dew with a bandanna it might be the difference between having the ability to keep fighting or not. Am in total disagreement with you regarding solar stills .How many sheets of plastic would one need to create enough solar stills to collect enough water to survive on ? As I said - I carry a flimsy plastic drop cloth - 10' X 25' - so a lot of stills can be fashioned.So much of this scenario and various scenarios are based on climate - geographic location - ambient temp - vegetation - rainfall - snow and other factors . Agreed I won't throw credentials on the altar of making a point and one can travel miles and miles without coming upon pop bottles and water collection devices . I won't throw credentials out there either. What matters to me is my personal experience. Obviously with the factors you listed the mileage of others may vary. There is a lot of trash that washes up on the beaches of Florida - much of it can be useful.Ask oneself a few questions Am I injured ? - How injured am I ? - Do I have the stamina - the psychological and physical reserve to keep on going and get to a source of REAL water ? Do I stay here and attempt to collect far less water to keep me alive than I might obtain by kicking myself in the @zz and keep going ? What if's can be thrown into any situation. The question at hand was do solar stills work. I contend they do.In some situations , one is better off staying put . In Many....many situations , one is best served by hauling said @zz - stop crying and push oneself to the extreme . This is not a back porch scenario . One has to do the math - the stats and make a decision regarding the situation at hand and come up with the best approach based on what they have to deal with . No argument - and I don't have a back porch.I have had the honor of speaking with downed air crew and pilots . I was on a PAR team in Laos and Vietnam . The best quote in my repertoire of quotes is -> I got tired of ****ing around with the experts and their books and decided to extricate my "@zz" from a really crappy situation . In my 20+ years in the military I too have had the honor to serve with many brave and experienced individuals. My disagreements with your OP are due to my experiences. I too take the "experts" with a grain of salt on most issues. I learn best by doing, so when I say something works for me it is because my boots were planted firmly in the field - it ain't something I read about on the net (not implying that you were accusing me of that). |
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Post by Besttracker on Nov 29, 2013 18:21:18 GMT -7
There are no experts at hardcore survival situations
There are simply those that survived or perished .
And those which mourn the loss of a loved one .
It ain't a pink fluffy book .
You want to be the google / armchair expert ?
**** YOU and your insipid ideas .
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Post by crashdive123 on Nov 29, 2013 19:04:38 GMT -7
There are no experts at hardcore survival situations There are simply those that survived or perished . And those which mourn the loss of a loved one . It ain't a pink fluffy book . You want to be the google / armchair expert ? **** YOU and your insipid ideas . WTF is this post about?  |
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Post by Besttracker on Nov 29, 2013 19:07:08 GMT -7
There are no experts at hardcore survival situations There are simply those that survived or perished . And those which mourn the loss of a loved one . It ain't a pink fluffy book . You want to be the google / armchair expert ? **** YOU and your insipid ideas . WTF is this post about? YOU sort it out and "WTF" is not proper etiquette . |
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Post by crashdive123 on Nov 29, 2013 19:08:12 GMT -7
Oh - I think I've sorted it, and you out just fine.
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Post by ColcordMama on Nov 29, 2013 19:39:06 GMT -7
Thank you, Crash. The situation is indeed sorted out.
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Post by offtrail on Nov 29, 2013 22:58:22 GMT -7
Thanks for sharing that idea crash, never thought of leaving the knife closed. I never use a knife as a striker but at least now I know how it's done.
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Post by crashdive123 on Nov 30, 2013 9:55:30 GMT -7
What's kind of sad about this thread is that in the OP a bunch of definitive statements were made. When the OP was proven wrong on at least one of them, I get accused of being the armchair expert. I suppose the proof is in the pudding and now the real keyboard commando has been exposed.
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Post by Cwi555 on Nov 30, 2013 10:51:52 GMT -7
Lets clear the air a bit here.
A pyrophoric substance burns spontaneously in air. Iron is such a substance. That one, many people have a hard time understanding.
So why doesn't steel spontaneously combust? It comes down to surface area. An unprotected iron surface in the air will rapidly convert to iron(III)oxide. However, if that surface area is too large, it will effectively choke itself out, and simply create a surface area of 'rust'. The only thing that seperates rusting from burning is the rate of oxygenation/combustion. Therefore, the flint steel method will work in any combination that creates enough particles of free iron with sufficient surface area exposed to the atmosphere, to prevent choking out the oxygen supply by the exothermic pyrophoric process.
This rapid oxidization is the same process that ferrocerium rod scraping experiences. The material in a ferrocerium rod, is much more susceptible to the process, and oxidizes faster, but its still the same process.
Whatever the scraper is, it must be harder than the item being scrapped. Flint is ~7.0 on the Mohs hardness scale while the average steel pocket knife is around a ~5.5. Therein is the second source of confusion.
The harder a carbon blade is, the less it will spark. Some of the tool steel alloys and other more advanced knife blade alloys are harder than the flint.
The point being the difference is subjective to the blade used. Absolute statements from either side of the arguement are therefore wrong given the subjective variable of the knives alloy and hardness.
My take on it for what it is worth.
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Post by offtrail on Nov 30, 2013 12:30:17 GMT -7
So a knife can be to hard to throw a spark...who knew. This must be the reason why some striker are better then others. Is it possible to know the best hardness for a striker to throw the most or hottest sparks?
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Post by crashdive123 on Nov 30, 2013 12:34:49 GMT -7
So a knife can be to hard to throw a spark...who knew. This must be the reason why some striker are better then others. Is it possible to know the best hardness for a striker to throw the most or hottest sparks? I don't know where that hardness (Rockwell) number lies, but experimenting with what you have is (IMO) the way to go. Depending on the rocks available to you, your steel hardness that is most effective will vary. |
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Post by offtrail on Nov 30, 2013 12:44:54 GMT -7
So a knife can be to hard to throw a spark...who knew. This must be the reason why some striker are better then others. Is it possible to know the best hardness for a striker to throw the most or hottest sparks? I don't know where that hardness (Rockwell) number lies, but experimenting with what you have is (IMO) the way to go. Depending on the rocks available to you, your steel hardness that is most effective will vary. Thanks crash, all I know is my striker seems to be less effective then others iv'e seen on youtube. I took an old rat tail file and heated it so I could bend it, it does work but not that good. |
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Post by Cwi555 on Nov 30, 2013 12:53:23 GMT -7
So a knife can be to hard to throw a spark...who knew. This must be the reason why some striker are better then others. Is it possible to know the best hardness for a striker to throw the most or hottest sparks? The heat of a spark is material dependent, and independent of the strikers hardness. Going from memory, iron is in the 2,600 f range. Quantity is a variable as well, with the microstructure of the metal, roughness, and the roughness of the striker being a few of the variables. As a general rule of thumb, the difference in hardness should be at least 1.5 on the mohs scale. Cubic zirconium (fake diamonds) range between a 8 and 8.5. You could get some 200 and 300 stainless steels to spark with them. Why anyone would want to is beyond me given the ease of flint and iron/steel, but it is physically possible. |
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