Post by woodyz on May 19, 2014 14:17:55 GMT -7
Had a guy come over yesterday afternoon to shoot two handguns he had just got back from his “gunsmith”.
One was a Smith and Wesson 1911 .45 he had upgraded some of the parts to make it look and function more like a Colt.
He had had the trigger assembly worked on to make it break at about 3.5 # and keep it crisp. It was a nice trigger break, but when he started shooting the first magazine through it the third and four shots were hang fires.
By hang fire I mean he pulled the trigger but the weapon didn’t fire right away. I was standing behind and to the left and the first one he very obviously pushed the gun forward. Just as I said, “what was that”, he pulled the trigger again and turned the gun to his left to look at it, just as it fired.
A classic case for keeping the gun pointed down range, especially if something is not right.
This guy is not a novice, but he still made a classic mistake.
Now to the problem.
Since he had had the trigger group parts worked on, the first thing I did was dry fire the trigger as slowly as possible trying to feel a burr or something hanging during the cycle. The trigger pull was really nice, but it wasn’t re-sitting the trigger forward after the release.
Since he had had the trigger assembly (parts) worked on and had replaced the grip safety I told him I thought the problem was with the sear spring. It looks almost like a flat fork with three tines.
The left leg applies pressure directly to the sear causing it to push on the hammer until the trigger releases it. A problem here can cause the hammer to follow the slide forward. Adjusting it to apply to little pressure will cause problems like hang firing.
The center leg serves two functions, applying pressure to both the disconnector and to the trigger. Pressure against the angled bottom surface of the disconnector causes it to snap into the notch in the bottom of the slide when the slide wants to allow the connection of the sear and trigger so the pistol can be fired. The disconnector prevents the 1911 from firing more than one round with each trigger pull, it also prevents it from firing if too little pressure does not reset the disconector to the firing position.
The second function of the center leg is as a trigger return, causing the trigger to return forward to the firing position as pressure is released after a shot. (some custom sear springs contain four legs, using separate one for each function) This leg can be adjusted to regulate trigger pull.
The right leg applies pressure to the grip safety causing it to block the trigger when the shooter isn’t gripping the weapon. Insufficient pressure de-activates the safety.
Today he called me to tell me his “gunsmith” had bent one of the sear spring legs too much.
Just as I told him, without taking it apart.
The second handgun he had just received back from the “gunsmith” was a Browning Hi-Power. He had bought it from someone and it wouldn’t work so he took it to this “gunsmith” It was put together wrong, something really hard to do, but not impossible. So they got it back but were never able to run a magazine through it without a jam so they took it back to him. They just got it back yesterday and brought it to shoot too.
About four shots in it jammed. A stove pipe jam.
So my first question was did they have the feed “tube/slot” polished?
Both the barrel and the grip assembly have a slot where the round is guided from the mag into the barrel. It doesn’t take much dirt in that area to stop it from functioning properly. Usually a stove pipe type of jam. The Berretta does the same thing for the same reason.
So I took the Hi-power apart faster than the protest they made not to (for some reason they had a lot of trouble putting it back together).
Well the feed tube wasn’t just dirty, it had rust pits, as did some of the other mating parts.
I used my tee shirt and cleaned-up the feed tube as best I could (had at least a 4” square of black crud on the bottom of my tee shirt.
Since we were still standing at the range at the time and he was holding the grip assembly I gave it back to him to finish putting together. He almost had it lined up when he started trying to re-pin it my hammering on the pin with his palm.
Now the Hi-Power goes back together almost just like the 1911, the barrel assembly is a little harder and the assembly of the top and bottom is easier. Browning built in notches in the slide to line up. I showed him the notches and dropped in the pin.
So seeing a training opportunity I told him to take it back apart. At which time he took out a screw driver to remove the assembly pin.
People you can field strip anything Browning designed without using any tools, not armour strip, but field strip.
The pin practically dropped out on its own when removed correctly.
Sorry to be so long, the Browning ran through 2 ½ magazines before it got fouled again. I made him take it back apart, clean the feed tube on his tee shirt and it run two more mags without jamming.
I told him to polish …….. not sand, use a very soft polishing head on a drimel and polish all of the mating parts and the feed tube. He said he would take it back to the gunsmith.
OK. First never return business to a gunsmith if the gun isn’t cleaner when you get it back then it was when you gave it to him. Any gunsmith that can stand a gun with any dirt doesn’t have any pride in his work.
Second I think I have found me another older model Hi-Power. I’ll bet I can pick it up for $100. The next time the guy comes over. I can’t even imagine what the inside of the barrel looks like if the feed tube was pitted. But I can get a really good barrel of $150 and a four legged sear spring for $20, which puts me into an older model Hi-Power for $270 and I will take that deal any day.
One was a Smith and Wesson 1911 .45 he had upgraded some of the parts to make it look and function more like a Colt.
He had had the trigger assembly worked on to make it break at about 3.5 # and keep it crisp. It was a nice trigger break, but when he started shooting the first magazine through it the third and four shots were hang fires.
By hang fire I mean he pulled the trigger but the weapon didn’t fire right away. I was standing behind and to the left and the first one he very obviously pushed the gun forward. Just as I said, “what was that”, he pulled the trigger again and turned the gun to his left to look at it, just as it fired.
A classic case for keeping the gun pointed down range, especially if something is not right.
This guy is not a novice, but he still made a classic mistake.
Now to the problem.
Since he had had the trigger group parts worked on, the first thing I did was dry fire the trigger as slowly as possible trying to feel a burr or something hanging during the cycle. The trigger pull was really nice, but it wasn’t re-sitting the trigger forward after the release.
Since he had had the trigger assembly (parts) worked on and had replaced the grip safety I told him I thought the problem was with the sear spring. It looks almost like a flat fork with three tines.
The left leg applies pressure directly to the sear causing it to push on the hammer until the trigger releases it. A problem here can cause the hammer to follow the slide forward. Adjusting it to apply to little pressure will cause problems like hang firing.
The center leg serves two functions, applying pressure to both the disconnector and to the trigger. Pressure against the angled bottom surface of the disconnector causes it to snap into the notch in the bottom of the slide when the slide wants to allow the connection of the sear and trigger so the pistol can be fired. The disconnector prevents the 1911 from firing more than one round with each trigger pull, it also prevents it from firing if too little pressure does not reset the disconector to the firing position.
The second function of the center leg is as a trigger return, causing the trigger to return forward to the firing position as pressure is released after a shot. (some custom sear springs contain four legs, using separate one for each function) This leg can be adjusted to regulate trigger pull.
The right leg applies pressure to the grip safety causing it to block the trigger when the shooter isn’t gripping the weapon. Insufficient pressure de-activates the safety.
Today he called me to tell me his “gunsmith” had bent one of the sear spring legs too much.
Just as I told him, without taking it apart.
The second handgun he had just received back from the “gunsmith” was a Browning Hi-Power. He had bought it from someone and it wouldn’t work so he took it to this “gunsmith” It was put together wrong, something really hard to do, but not impossible. So they got it back but were never able to run a magazine through it without a jam so they took it back to him. They just got it back yesterday and brought it to shoot too.
About four shots in it jammed. A stove pipe jam.
So my first question was did they have the feed “tube/slot” polished?
Both the barrel and the grip assembly have a slot where the round is guided from the mag into the barrel. It doesn’t take much dirt in that area to stop it from functioning properly. Usually a stove pipe type of jam. The Berretta does the same thing for the same reason.
So I took the Hi-power apart faster than the protest they made not to (for some reason they had a lot of trouble putting it back together).
Well the feed tube wasn’t just dirty, it had rust pits, as did some of the other mating parts.
I used my tee shirt and cleaned-up the feed tube as best I could (had at least a 4” square of black crud on the bottom of my tee shirt.
Since we were still standing at the range at the time and he was holding the grip assembly I gave it back to him to finish putting together. He almost had it lined up when he started trying to re-pin it my hammering on the pin with his palm.
Now the Hi-Power goes back together almost just like the 1911, the barrel assembly is a little harder and the assembly of the top and bottom is easier. Browning built in notches in the slide to line up. I showed him the notches and dropped in the pin.
So seeing a training opportunity I told him to take it back apart. At which time he took out a screw driver to remove the assembly pin.
People you can field strip anything Browning designed without using any tools, not armour strip, but field strip.
The pin practically dropped out on its own when removed correctly.
Sorry to be so long, the Browning ran through 2 ½ magazines before it got fouled again. I made him take it back apart, clean the feed tube on his tee shirt and it run two more mags without jamming.
I told him to polish …….. not sand, use a very soft polishing head on a drimel and polish all of the mating parts and the feed tube. He said he would take it back to the gunsmith.
OK. First never return business to a gunsmith if the gun isn’t cleaner when you get it back then it was when you gave it to him. Any gunsmith that can stand a gun with any dirt doesn’t have any pride in his work.
Second I think I have found me another older model Hi-Power. I’ll bet I can pick it up for $100. The next time the guy comes over. I can’t even imagine what the inside of the barrel looks like if the feed tube was pitted. But I can get a really good barrel of $150 and a four legged sear spring for $20, which puts me into an older model Hi-Power for $270 and I will take that deal any day.
