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Post by mud on May 17, 2012 20:04:57 GMT -7
On the other forum this was posted and since I happen to be between suburban and rural, I regularly visited it. Now I have to start over. Following along with OffTrail's previous thread about city survival, let's expand into other areas. Perhaps with enough relevant info they will get sticky status.
Food. Water Shelter Security Exit strategy.
Food in general is plentiful if you know how to forage and hunt. That will only remain true until TSHTF. Once the food in the stores runs out people will take to the woods and game will hunker down or leave the area completely for a time. Fishing in my particular area would be good but requires a 6 mile walk/bike ride just to get to the area. While we have some wild edibles around there would be little reward for the amount of effort you put into the gathering 9 months out of the year.
Water here is not an issue as long as we have a way to make it potable. Water can be collected many ways so I look forward to reading the creative responses. For the purpose of this thread I will post collecting it from a creek since there is one near my house.
Shelter is easy in the beginning as we plan to bug in as long as possible. In this setting though many people will leave and there is an abundance of barns, sheds and such that could shelter my family for a night.
Security. This is the tricky one. Do you wave at them or shoot them?
Exit strategy. When all else fails and you can no longer stay at your current location how will you leave and what will you take>
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Post by Cwi555 on May 19, 2012 10:23:58 GMT -7
Suburban bug out presents some specific problems. Above is Atlanta, below is Marietta. ATL would be considered a 'city' while Marietta would be considered a 'suburb'. In some ways, suburbia would be more difficult than city. Most cities have underground warrens/tubes/tunnels in which a person in the know of their layout could pass unseen through the majority of the city. For those times they are on the surface, there are specific geometries to a cityscape that afford an advantage to the traveler and observer both. Picking out something or someone that shouldn't be there is a lot easier when that something someone is surrounded by uniform or semi-uniform shapes. Anything that breaks that geometry (like a silhouette of a person) is going to stand out. That is not so in suburbia. If someone were to take a slow walk or drive through an area like Marietta, they would note some geometry to it, but they would also note odd angles and inconsistent building associated with urban sprawl. Moving through an area like that would make you stand out. Then there are the 'pets'. I have yet to be in any suburban area in the world that didn't have at least 1 dog somewhere in the neighborhood. Short of aerial thermal imaging, it would be next to impossible to know where the animals are. Running across a pissed off hungry doberman pincher in the dark while trying to get out could get messy. We get to firearms then. Suburbia is more likely to have firearms than most parts of a city. Firearms in a city will be concentrated among the gangs/criminals, and LEO. The majority of metro-sexual city denizens are the same folks who vote for schummer and his ilk. Many of the folks that work in major cities, commute to them from suburbia. If they get caught out in the city, they will be trying to get home. Travelers vs city denizens will therefore be more likely to be armed. Then there is water, power, etc. Suburbia enjoys the city supply of those, but lack the ability to supply themselves for the most part due to 'city' etc regulations, limited area, and required centralized waste/water management. They do not have a septic tank, a well, nor due to the limited space, the ability to separate them far enough to supply both sanitation and safe water in the same general location. If your rural, having a well and septic tank is no big deal and generally taken for granted. Manually dumping a few gallons of river, creek, or pond water into your toilet tank to flush with is easy. Trying to make your toilet work when the sewage lines have been shut down would be difficult at best. You had better have chemical toilets and a good sized hole dug in your yard if your bugging in suburbia. All the way around, people who live in the suburbs who think themselves insulated from the worst of the SHTF effects are sadly mistaken. In most respects, they have the worst of both rural and city problems. Whatever is your specific circumstances, these are the kind of things that must be considered. For nearly anything you can think of, there are mitigating actions that can be taken, but if someone is operating from a false sense of security, the person would likely be blinding themselves to those actions.
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Post by angelhelp on May 19, 2012 12:20:04 GMT -7
Nobody could dig a hole here without hitting water all too soon. If the swamp dried up, it's a healthy hike, uphill, to fetch water by the bucket. The whole town would be doing the same thing.
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Post by mud on May 20, 2012 1:28:49 GMT -7
Good reply CWI, that is very good observations. I too use satellite maps to determine and memorize routes out of the city I work in. I tend to be obsessed with maps..... Anyway that is exactly the type of thing I hope to be brought out in this thread. When it is not after 3am and I have slept I have a few more things to post about it.
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Post by Bjarki on May 20, 2012 7:37:45 GMT -7
Being caught in a suburb in a shtf scenario would be my worst nightmare, I'd rate my chances of survival higher on a life raft on the open sea with only a rusted nail and a broken chair leg as equipment. And yet again CW delivers a spot on review of what to keep an eye out for, I want to marry that guys brain
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Post by mud on May 20, 2012 20:22:51 GMT -7
Being caught in a suburb in a shtf scenario would be my worst nightmare, I'd rate my chances of survival higher on a life raft on the open sea with only a rusted nail and a broken chair leg as equipment. And yet again CW delivers a spot on review of what to keep an eye out for, I want to marry that guys brain unfortunately many of us live that situation daily. It is my hope that through discussion we can all benefit from the ideas and warnings of pitfalls.
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Post by offtrail on May 20, 2012 22:25:57 GMT -7
Looking for Water, keep in mind water will be everywhere in the city. look at all the catchments a city would provide, old buckets, lids, tarps left on the ground, old tires, spouting on houses. Even old clothing that is wet from the rain can be rung out and the water collected. Hot water tanks, pluming, low spots on a flat roof. many possibilities for water in a city if you know where to look. A solar still I think would work just as good in the city as in the woods maybe better with the hot asphalt.
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Post by mud on May 20, 2012 22:36:20 GMT -7
OK taking a que from CWI I created a sample map with labels as an example of the other difficulties he pointed out in his reply to my thread. this is the general layout: Attachments:
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Post by mud on May 20, 2012 22:39:56 GMT -7
OK taking a que from CWI I created a sample map with labels as an example of the other difficulties he pointed out in his reply to my thread. this is the general layout: As you can see, there are some natural challenges due to the terrain in this particular area, with water and only two road crossings out of the city. Now lets add some points of interest. I will add a home, a representation of my brothers house which we use as an alternate sight if we are caught out and cannot return home immediately, and a place of employment (factory is a real place though) Attachments:
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Post by offtrail on May 20, 2012 22:42:08 GMT -7
Looking For Food, if you can get past the gross factor a city will provide plenty of food. Stray dogs and cats, sorry but if i'm hungry i'm adding pets to my list of edibles Rats, mice, snakes,pigeon's and bugs would all be on the menu if your a survivor. What about the drunk that fell asleep in the Allie Just kidding folks A person must be willing to eat things that others will not, it's just that simple
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Post by mud on May 20, 2012 22:50:09 GMT -7
Sorry aobut the chain posts but I don't know how to get them all in the same one yet. Anyway, Now lets zoom in on the work area a little more first and I would like to have some responses as to how to get out of that area and to either of the other locations. Please note what features you use and why and copy the image if you can. We have several routes out of the area already planned and while my work is not the one marked it is on the same side of the city. I will post said routes after participation slacks off a little and proceed to the next session. This is an exercise in your ability to interpret and use a map or sat map in a bug out situation. You may have a foot and driven path or either of the two. Attachments:
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Post by Cwi555 on May 21, 2012 15:05:09 GMT -7
In that scenario, use of the river will be required if at all possible. Need a self inflated small raft something along these lines: www.jpwinc.com/pages/inflalatablekayak.htmNight vision would be a big plus as well. I can see multiple security threats throughout any path you'd take from work to brothers or home. That said, you'd want to minimize time/distance on the ground. At the same time, rafting down/up the river would make you a sitting duck in daylight. The trip should be taken at night. I would not try to make it to the 'brothers' location. I'd be heading straight home given the lay of the land between the water and your brothers. No matter what you do, you can plan on those few crossings to be choked with cars, which is exactly what you want to avoid. (a choke point) Even the water could be a problem depending on the direction of current. That may necessitate a motor. If that is the case, your best bet is an electric motor. Keep a deep cycle marine battery under the hood of your truck/car (extra battery) Either way, I would be dumping the truck/car. In all cases I would plan the route with layover points/caches. Slow, Steady, Silent, with stealth would be the way to go about it in my opinion. Move at night only and stay out of any lights that may be along the way. My opinion for what its worth.
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Post by ColcordMama on May 23, 2012 9:25:49 GMT -7
Is it possible for someone to resize this so it's easier to read? I'm not going to even try to read this now, the way it is, because I'd be constantly shifting the page back and forth, back and forth with my cursor. I'd probably end up getting carsick and puking on my keyboard.
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Post by thywar on May 23, 2012 16:02:17 GMT -7
Mud, that was my first thought when I saw the maps.. then read CWI's post.. I agree.. water evac at night would be the best.. and home rather than brothers.. the raft he linked would work or a small kayak depending on what you're carrying or if its you and your brother.. or others..
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Post by angelhelp on May 23, 2012 16:18:50 GMT -7
I didn't notice the issue until I clicked on the first of mud's pictures (post 7), but I couldn't get back to the thread without closing the tab and navigating back. Usually the escape key returns one to a former location, but not this time. Phooey.
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