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Post by woodyz on Oct 13, 2013 8:30:27 GMT -7
I was reading on the lead and rubber bearings.
I don't have any experience with them and I felt they were more for motor and equipment mounting.
Then I saw where some countries were using them for buildings and bridges.
Here in the USA NASA and the military have used them but not many applications in structures.
It might be just the thing to tie the whole thing to a pedestal on the bedrock. There is evidence of that in early construction in Turkey and Iraq. Not lead and rubber but of tieing the pedestal to the bedrock and letting the structure move above it.
Thanks! I'll give that option another look.
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Post by woodyz on Oct 13, 2013 11:33:32 GMT -7
What's the deal with pointy hats? I missed something some where
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Post by kutkota on Oct 13, 2013 11:40:40 GMT -7
What's the deal with pointy hats? I missed something some where I think the knowledge you two smart guys are talking about is above what the general populace on this place is.
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 13, 2013 12:12:59 GMT -7
What's the deal with pointy hats? I missed something some where I think the knowledge you two smart guys are talking about is above what the general populace on this place is. There is very little above anyone, if the terms were altered, anyone could understand it. My apologies for not doing so already.
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Post by USCGME2 on Oct 13, 2013 12:46:15 GMT -7
I was just joshing a bit guys. I get the basic concept, shock absorbers (like motor mounts) for a building in quake zones. When New Madrid slips she gonna roar like a banshee. Anyway, you engineer types carry on. Im enjoying the show.
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Post by woodyz on Oct 13, 2013 12:53:35 GMT -7
I also apologize. I have been fortunate that almost anything I can read and study on I can understand. But I lack in my ability to explain some things adequately.
As I am sure most have noticed in my posting I can get very wordy and long winded. I believe it results from my inadequacy to explain my position, I over correct by saying more. If I had better communication skills I would be able to say more with less words.
I envy CWI's ability to explain the processes of the science where most can understand it, I have never had that ability.
The use of vibration dampers are everywhere. One easy example is on the front of the cam shaft and the crankshaft of a car engine, they absorb the rotation vibrations the shafts create by spinning.
What I am trying to accomplish is the same principle.
The movement felt during an earthquake is the vibrations traveling through the ground. Soil will shift and move making anything on top of the soil fall apart. Bedrock below the soil/sediment level vibrates as well. I am trying to redirect those vibrations to a fluid and/or a pedestal bumper or shock absorber damper, allowing the building structure built on the bedrock to move but transfer the vibration to something the movement won't break apart.
Again using a car motor as an example you can't just bolt the motor to the frame to torque and vibrations created would just tear one or the other apart. Instead you use motor mounts, made rigid with iron where the attach but flexible with rubber so they allow and absorb the torque and vibrations.
The use of lead and rubber in building and bridge mounts/pedestals allow a solid attachment that can flex and absorb the torque and vibrations place on them.
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Post by angelhelp on Oct 13, 2013 13:05:27 GMT -7
It's well past the days of asking him myself, but my dad may well have worked on that building mentioned in the pdf previously referenced. He wasn't the type to "bring his work home" though he'd discuss anything if asked.
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Post by Cwi555 on Oct 13, 2013 14:11:40 GMT -7
That's a pretty good explanation. I would like to add a few points if I may. explaination of seismic wavesThe linked information gives a basic idea of what seismic waves are. As noted, vibration dampening devices are everywhere. That is a stockbridge dampener. You see them on high tension electric transmission cables. The wind or seismic induced vibrations (in this case, usually the wind), are dampened by transmitting the energy from the main cable into the messenger cable (short cable with weights on either end), which upsets and dampens the oscillation/vibration in the main cable. At it's heart, the idea is to focus the energy, and destabilize the vibration. Anything that can directly, or indirectly, overcome a given items (system), resistance to movement in it's harmonic frequency will prevent it from being torn apart. A good example of this was the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. A vibrating object will pick out its resonant frequencies from a complex excitation and vibrate at those frequencies, "filtering out" other frequencies present in the excitation/vibration. If you didn't have shock absorbers in your car, that energy would be transmitted to the frame. Without dampening it, that energy would build up to the point of cracking the frame or worse. In the case of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, the wind by itself was not strong enough to cause that sway in an instance. That energy was delivered over a period of time and stored in the local system (the bridge), until it started swaying at it's natural frequency. The wind never stopped delivering that energy, which built up the swaying until it tore itself apart. People focus on the bridge tearing apart, but without proper vibration dampening, even a slower wind could have brought it down. Stored energy is dangerous. A continuous supply of low energy is usually more damaging than a brief shock for that reason. The dampeners that have been discussed here break up that resonance both in shock form, and in time delivery form. I also apologize. I have been fortunate that almost anything I can read and study on I can understand. But I lack in my ability to explain some things adequately. As I am sure most have noticed in my posting I can get very wordy and long winded. I believe it results from my inadequacy to explain my position, I over correct by saying more. If I had better communication skills I would be able to say more with less words. I envy CWI's ability to explain the processes of the science where most can understand it, I have never had that ability. The use of vibration dampers are everywhere. One easy example is on the front of the cam shaft and the crankshaft of a car engine, they absorb the rotation vibrations the shafts create by spinning. What I am trying to accomplish is the same principle. The movement felt during an earthquake is the vibrations traveling through the ground. Soil will shift and move making anything on top of the soil fall apart. Bedrock below the soil/sediment level vibrates as well. I am trying to redirect those vibrations to a fluid and/or a pedestal bumper or shock absorber damper, allowing the building structure built on the bedrock to move but transfer the vibration to something the movement won't break apart. Again using a car motor as an example you can't just bolt the motor to the frame to torque and vibrations created would just tear one or the other apart. Instead you use motor mounts, made rigid with iron where the attach but flexible with rubber so they allow and absorb the torque and vibrations. The use of lead and rubber in building and bridge mounts/pedestals allow a solid attachment that can flex and absorb the torque and vibrations place on them.
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Post by woodyz on Oct 13, 2013 18:08:38 GMT -7
WOW! I can't believe that stayed up as long as it did. Here are a couple of video's that are more in line with what I think I am going to do. They show one isolation damper at work, I would use multiple pedestals and the ability of some to move in different directions at the same time others are moving another, thus resisting a torque effect. At the same time they are absorbing the shock and slowing down the movement. This isn't going to be earthquake proof just resistant, I am hoping move with the shifting bed rock, any up lift or drop beyond a couple of inches and it will all fail anyway. But I think I am far enough away and near enough to bedrock and not sediment, that the building will resist all but the strongest quake. I have tried to change my terminology some to help with the explanation. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yXgu4aS8HEwww.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4JcWn6nYs
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Post by USCGME2 on Oct 13, 2013 18:42:08 GMT -7
Same concept as dampers on a bow string. And the dampers on the limbs.
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Post by angelhelp on Oct 13, 2013 18:43:24 GMT -7
Or on a piano
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Post by woodyz on Oct 13, 2013 18:46:01 GMT -7
Exactly the concept.
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Post by cajunlady87 on Jul 20, 2017 18:32:07 GMT -7
One more of interest before I shut it down for the night.
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Post by cajunlady87 on Jul 21, 2017 15:56:22 GMT -7
Little did I know when I posted this thread of my observations of t.v. programs that it would hit close to home for anyone here. Read CWI's post explaining it all. You never know when something gets posted just how valuable that info can be for others.
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Post by woodyz on Jul 23, 2017 12:38:38 GMT -7
wow I remember this post. It was back before my Sons accident when I was planning to build right on the outer edge of the vault line. I had test holes drilled to locate the bed rock and had bought a couple of surplus bridge beams to use. I was going to construct a bridge/trolley crane to set them. I had the approvals and everything when my Son had his accident and I never did it. Bought the house on the hill above his instead so we could stay with him. Now he is better and I am too old and worn out to go off building anything more complicated that a deck.
I sold the land easy enough but if I remember right the bridge beams were left in an outside storage area, wonder if they are still there?
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