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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 0:38:03 GMT -7
I am just curious...and have an off the wall idea, and am wondering if it is possible, or plausable to accomplish if enough people were willing to do it.
Since there are so many people scattered to so many different locations across the country and around the world...if enough people were willing to learn and invest in the equipment, would it be possible for us to keep in contact around the world if needed?
A few things came to mind when I thought about this, and I know it could only happen if enough people committed to making it happen...but is it worth trying?
~ Enough people would have to invest in a license, HAM equipment and learn how to use it. Can folks tell me how to get started other than getting a license? Some of us need to know HOW to operate a HAM system.
~ People would have to be willing to invest in an alternate power source...if the grid goes down long enough that we loose cell and land line phones as well as internet, then it is likely that travel will be next to impossible for an extended period of time. In that case, folks would need to be able to recharge their power sources...maybe a portable solar power set of some kind? Does anyone know what it would take?
~ A Specific time and emergency system would have to be put into place to be able to keep in contact should something more happen, or if folks need to be made aware of certain situations.
~ More than 1 person at a HAM location would have to know how to operate the equipment...just in case something happens to the main person, they could still keep up contact as needed.
~ Some form of code would need to be used under certain circumstances...travel plans, supply locations, medical help, etc... anything that the "bad guys" might be able to use against folks.
I know it may seem a bit far fetched, but then again, we simply don't know what is going to happen in the future. I know a few of you have a LOT more knowledge about this kind of idea, and I am sure it has its holes...but IF enough folks were willing to do it...would it be possible for us to keep in touch and keep each other informed as to the goings on in our areas by trying something like this?
Can someone tell me HOW to operate a system, do you talk on them or is it some kind of morris code type thing, where do I get a set up or a list of the individual parts needed (EVERYTHING NEEDED) so I can hunt them down so I can get on with trying to get a license and a system of my own, I have a huge antena that was for the tv, then that all changed...can I use this antena for a HAM radio or do I need a special antena? All I know as of now is its a method of communication that includes something that looks complicated. Come on guys...I can't be the ONLY person wanting to know this information, or if this idea is doable.
And if you don't want to spill it out here...then PM me...PLEASE!!! I NEED someone to teach me, coach me along on how this works and how to do it.
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Post by 2W0HMF on Aug 11, 2012 1:33:04 GMT -7
PM on its way
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Post by graf on Aug 11, 2012 1:59:42 GMT -7
Due to the cost involved and tower restrictions expecially for rental property that could cause problems for some. However a way around that would be have folks that do have or are going to have ham radios be the central point in a area. Others could use short wave receivers which are on many emergency radios to receive broadcast relay messages, and they could also maintain a chain of CB's to relay messages at key times of the day or evening.
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Post by thywar on Aug 11, 2012 6:54:51 GMT -7
I would think a mobile unit would be best for that situation. Granted it probably wouldn't transmit as far but if you had to bug out it would already be available for movement vs one set up in the home location. Also it would be hooked to the power supply which might be easier to keep charged with solar than another power source. For the record I'm talking out of my hat here cause I don't know anything about this. I'm making assumptions. I do plan on looking into a setup and I know there are local groups close by that can guide me and give me info and help me with testing.
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Post by Pennsylvania Mike on Aug 11, 2012 8:30:49 GMT -7
PM sent
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Post by hitec4you on Aug 11, 2012 8:51:44 GMT -7
You could use a mobile unit as a base. You just need the big antenna and tower/mount. As for the power source for that you would need a battery and a solar panel to keep it charged.
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Post by WILL on Aug 11, 2012 9:26:46 GMT -7
I'm actually in the process of trying to simplify my survival preps. In other words, I've found the more complex stuff I own, the less independent I am. It starts working against rustic living at a certain point. For example, I own a dirt bike. It would be a very handy tool in a SHTF for sure... so long as I have gas, oil and spare parts. The more complex machinery I own, the more dependent upon the system operating properly I become. For me, SHTF survival is about NOT being reliant upon the supply chain working properly. Solar set ups, ham radios, ect are all complex machinery that breaks down. I would rather avoid that if possible. Right now, I'm focused on doing as much with as little as possible. I need to master simple living before I start adding any more complex systems into my survival plan. Living like the pioneers did. I guess once I get that down, I'll build on it, but that's a long way off for me.
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Post by WILL on Aug 11, 2012 10:01:21 GMT -7
...................... ..Solar set ups, ham radios, ect are all complex machinery that breaks down. I would rather avoid that if possible. ....................................... Doesn't have to be complex. I have comm gear that is almost as old as I am - still working and highly repairable with the spare parts I have. The trick is not to rely on it, but allow it to supplement your life. Marc, I believe you sell solar power systems for a living. I didn't mean to step on your toes there.
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Post by urbanprep on Aug 12, 2012 8:45:22 GMT -7
This is a pretty good idea. To get a ham license is fairly straight forward: find a club in your area, sign up for a class, attend, take the 35 question test and you get a Technician class license (No Morse code). Check out www.arrl.org/find-an-amateur-radio-license-class for more information. You can keep your skills and equipment "on the down low" with some very simple practices. You don't need a huge tower, I know folks who have communicated around the world with an antenna in their attic. Once you establish a "practice time" folks could get on and follow some sort of per-determined protocol or just chat. For example folks may get on at 10 p.m. Eastern every other Thursday and start off with a weather report. The AARL and some other groups have ham operators who go to disaster zones ad set up communications. I know from talking to a few that their equipment will run on commercial/ generator/ battery power, and by extension solar/wind/water power. To make sure your communications are secure (COMSEC) you would probably want to follow some sort of per-arranged plan. Code Books - very secure, but take a lot of time to develop and then you need to securely distribute them. If they fall into the wrong hands your communications can be compromised. One Time Pads - extremely secure, but again they need to be developed and distributed, and if they are compromised so are your communications. Book Codes - very secure, you just have to make sure everyone has the same copy of the book and understands the enciphering format Substitution Ciphers -- range from A=1, B=2 to very complex systems. Stick to the simple ones they are easy to remember unless you have some sort of encryption tools. One thing to keep in mind is that if you can have direction finding capability as a ham, so when you broadcast, someone could be trying to find you. with 3 "hits" it can be narrowed down to a very small area. Anyway, this could be a good way to stay in contact after an event.
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Post by 2W0HMF on Aug 12, 2012 9:17:22 GMT -7
This is a pretty good idea. To get a ham license is fairly straight forward: find a club in your area, sign up for a class, attend, take the 35 question test and you get a Technician class license (No Morse code). Check out www.arrl.org/find-an-amateur-radio-license-class for more information. You can keep your skills and equipment "on the down low" with some very simple practices. You don't need a huge tower, I know folks who have communicated around the world with an antenna in their attic. Once you establish a "practice time" folks could get on and follow some sort of per-determined protocol or just chat. For example folks may get on at 10 p.m. Eastern every other Thursday and start off with a weather report. The AARL and some other groups have ham operators who go to disaster zones ad set up communications. I know from talking to a few that their equipment will run on commercial/ generator/ battery power, and by extension solar/wind/water power. To make sure your communications are secure (COMSEC) you would probably want to follow some sort of per-arranged plan. Code Books - very secure, but take a lot of time to develop and then you need to securely distribute them. If they fall into the wrong hands your communications can be compromised. One Time Pads - extremely secure, but again they need to be developed and distributed, and if they are compromised so are your communications. Book Codes - very secure, you just have to make sure everyone has the same copy of the book and understands the enciphering format Substitution Ciphers -- range from A=1, B=2 to very complex systems. Stick to the simple ones they are easy to remember unless you have some sort of encryption tools. One thing to keep in mind is that if you can have direction finding capability as a ham, so when you broadcast, someone could be trying to find you. with 3 "hits" it can be narrowed down to a very small area. Anyway, this could be a good way to stay in contact after an event. Like it! we could start up "Bunker Net"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 10:10:15 GMT -7
Thanks urbanprep! That was some good info...questions for you though...what do you mean by having direction finding capability as a HAM? How would someone track me down? And how could I keep that from happening?
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Post by Pennsylvania Mike on Aug 12, 2012 10:10:53 GMT -7
We could start a "Bunker Net" almost immediately on EchoLink, everyone with a Tech or above license can participate regardless of propagation, then once we have a few Bunker Hams we could establish a net on HF and star one maybe on 20 meters or at night in the 75 meter band, but keep EchoLink for everyone on the Bunker regardless of which license they have.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 10:15:20 GMT -7
We could start a "Bunker Net" almost immediately on EchoLink, everyone with a Tech or above license can participate regardless of propagation, then once we have a few Bunker Hams we could establish a net on HF and star one maybe on 20 meters or at night in the 75 meter band, but keep EchoLink for everyone on the Bunker regardless of which license they have. This is part of what I am wondering about! I have NO clue what you said other than a bunch of people with a certain license can keep in touch. I don't want it to look like a foreign language when I read something like this.
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Post by lonewufcry on Aug 12, 2012 10:22:53 GMT -7
I am interested but I do live in a apartment and I have no idea how i could set up a system i could use.
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Post by urbanprep on Aug 12, 2012 15:54:02 GMT -7
Thanks urbanprep! That was some good info...questions for you though...what do you mean by having direction finding capability as a HAM? How would someone track me down? And how could I keep that from happening? When you transmit on a radio, for the most part, the signal goes out all around you. Think of throwing a stone in a pond. Where the stone enters the water is where you are and all the ripples are your signal broadcasting out. If an observer has a direction finder, the observer can tune in to your broadcast and get an idea where it is coming from. Back to the stone/pond example, a person on the other end of the pond (for the example) can see the ripple and point to the general direction the stone went in. Then if they move around the pond, they can get different reference where the stone may have gone in. The same can be done with fixed observation stations. Where all those "general" references intersect is the center of those rings (where the stone went in) or, your transmitter. I hope I explained this fairly well, it helps more to show on a map with locations. boiling it all down, you are getting a direction the broadcast is coming from (a Line of Bearing or LOB), a LOB from 3 or more locations will put you right on the broadcaster. Why would someone track you down? Well post event, I would say if they can broadcast they have something I may want, so I will track them down and do my homework before I approach/attack them. How do you prevent it? It is a combination of Operational Security (OPSEC) and Communications Security (COMSEC). Let's assume : You use the number of a month for an hour, for example January is the first month and is 1, where July is 7. Your OPSEC plan (for this example) is that you broadcast on the hour of the month when the month starts and up it by one each day. So, it is now August the 8th month. August started on a Wednesday. So on August 1 (wednesday) you transmit at 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. On August 2, Thur, you transmit at 9a.m. and 9.m.; Friday is 10 a.m./ and 10 p.m., etc. By Friday, 31 August you are broadcasting, again, at 2. September begins on a Saturday so you start at 9 again, because September is the 9th month. This would make it pretty difficult, but not impossible, for someone to monitor your transmission, especially if you jump frequencies on a daily basis. Now for COMSEC. You want your transmissions to be brief (to make it hard for someone to track you down) but you want to send the most information possible. This is where your code book could come in handy. Back in the telegraph age, they had volumes of code books for different industries so that you could send a short message (save cost) and get the most bang for your buck. Again, we assume you have a code book. Let's use this: Meaning : Code word ================= unidentified illness : fog died : harvest doctor : salesman adult : field child : garden Flu : duck Sorry to be gloomy, but if an unidentified disease was hitting your area you may want to warn your friends by broadcasting: "Fog this location. 3 fields and 1 garden harvested. Any word on the door to door salesman?" Essentially saying you have an unknown illness in the area 3 adults and 1 child have died and where is that doctor Let me know if I need to expand or make anything clearer.
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