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Post by tjwilhelm on Feb 18, 2014 21:50:21 GMT -7
My hope for this thread is to generate a brainstorm of creative preparedness measures aimed at moderately long-term (also useful for short-term)bug-in situations...two weeks to two months, or more.
Here's one to get the ball rolling: Under the topic of bug-in home security I've been thinking lately about how to creatively and effectively use a solar-powered electric fence charger. What do you think? How about shin-high electric fence wire under all the windows? Maybe the output of the electric fence charger attached to door knobs? Possibly vertical, wire-mesh panels, supported by fiberglass electric-fence posts between or behind shrub rows, energized by the fence charger?
What are the pros and cons? Is it possible or impossible? Would it be effective, or not?
What other ways can you think of to use a solar, electric fence charger?
What other, creative and effective security ideas have you been brainstorming?
What other thoughts have you had about any other kind of prepping for a moderately long-term bug-in situation?
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Post by USCGME2 on Feb 18, 2014 22:27:26 GMT -7
No bueno on the electric fence if you got kids around. Just too many hazards. Gotta be very careful with booby traps. At night, poor weather, or gotta bug out quick they can end up claiming you.
For priorities Id be thinking water sources, food, security, and then boredom. Also good tool sets for repairs and bulking up security.
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Post by solargeek1 on Feb 18, 2014 22:33:47 GMT -7
TJ are you thinking that the shock generated by the fencing will stop people from breaking in? I am not clear on your scenario. Wouldn't you just defeat that by wrapping a rubber mat around the part of the fencing you are trying to breach? The door knob might be a good one.
We need to get plywood cut to fit our windows, especially the big ones. I just want to know I can shove that sheet into the window (our windows are between 6" and 9" deep) and then fasten it and be safe. But we do have all laminated windows so very hard to just "break in".
For long term bug in we are going to evaluate in the next 3 mos. using my seed starting set up as a way to have greens and sprouts year round inside our place. I already have indoor lemon trees that produce well, and have had parsely, rosemary and thyme (oh yes and sage). This year we are trying for "regrowing" groceries like romaine (already growing from the 2" bottom I cut off store bought lettuce - I am astounded this works).
So I guess our thoughts/actions are always food security.
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Post by tjwilhelm on Feb 18, 2014 22:56:03 GMT -7
Maybe this (thread) won't work. The operative word here is "brainstorm" relative to moderately long-term bug-in.
"Brainstorming is a group or individual creativity technique by which efforts are made to find a conclusion for a specific problem by gathering a list of ideas spontaneously contributed by its member(s). The term was popularized by Alex Faickney Osborn in the 1953 book Applied Imagination. Osborn claimed that brainstorming was more effective than individuals working alone in generating ideas."
I thought it could be fun, funny, and perhaps even useful!
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Post by ColcordMama on Feb 19, 2014 0:59:31 GMT -7
I always plan for moderately long-term bug in whenever I stockpile, both confined inside the buildings only and with some outside animals/gardening, but with extra security of course. The trouble with trying to both bug in and garden is that bugging in implies a major crisis, probably including street skirmishes and looting and such, so even though in theory a producing food garden could be guarded from raiders, the reality is that it probably wouldn't be successfully enough and someone else would be eating what we grew for ourselves. I need to learn more about intensive indoor square foot gardening.
Good point about boredom, so I've made one room in the house into a library/extra bedroom, with two whole walls filled floor to ceiling with well stocked bookcases. Plenty of fiction, non-fiction and survival reference books. In terms of floor space, not that much of a footprint off the usable square footage, but so valuable in the long run if we had to hole up and pull the hole in after us.
I suppose the ideal bug in situation would be a stone fortress that was stocked to the rafters, had gun slits in the turrets, contained a deep well inside the quadrangle which also had a veggie garden and a chicken coop and a fish pond. Maybe even some goats. I don't think any of us has anything like that, so we will have to make do with what we do have. How would you fortify your living quarters if you had to try to prevent an assault by looters after your stockpiled goods? Can you answer that question within one hour? That's a reasonable deadline, because during a real crisis you might not even have that much time to figure out you're under attack and nobody is coming to help you. Let's take it even further. Here's the scenario: nobody is pounding on your front door with an axe handle demanding your food and wife, but you sure can't trust your neighbors and the tv news broadcasts scare the crap out of you, saying to stay off the streets or you'll be shot on sight, keep your doors and windows locked, arm yourself if you can, no police or fire personnel are available, expect intermittent power, cellphone and water outages, and all of this could continue for up to a month. Or more, depending on which broadcast you listen to. What are your priorities? Make a list and use these topics as a starting point: 1. medical needs 2. water availability other than the faucet 3. food (including for any and all livestock/pets) 4. sanitation requirements 5. food preservation and preparation if power is out for extended periods and 6. security equipment and supplies and guarding/patrol scheduling.
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Post by marc on Feb 19, 2014 6:39:25 GMT -7
My hope for this thread is to generate a brainstorm of creative preparedness measures aimed at moderately long-term (also useful for short-term)bug-in situations...two weeks to two months, or more. Here's one to get the ball rolling: Under the topic of bug-in home security I've been thinking lately about how to creatively and effectively use a solar-powered electric fence charger. What do you think? How about shin-high electric fence wire under all the windows? Maybe the output of the electric fence charger attached to door knobs? Possibly vertical, wire-mesh panels, supported by fiberglass electric-fence posts between or behind shrub rows, energized by the fence charger? What are the pros and cons? Is it possible or impossible? Would it be effective, or not? What other ways can you think of to use a solar, electric fence charger? What other, creative and effective security ideas have you been brainstorming? What other thoughts have you had about any other kind of prepping for a moderately long-term bug-in situation? I've always felt that security is a big issue that most people haven't thought out adequately because we all need to sleep........ I'd have to ponder specific app's for electric fence gear - I am trapped in my own paradigm because I've hung thousands of feet of wire and insulators for them. Been bit enough times to know that it pisses me off, but I know enough not to pee on it In the other ideas column, I'm a big believer in animals being the best alarm system on the planet. People who have haven't had geese along with guinea's and dogs, simply do not understand how finely tuned some animals are to their surroundings. Yeah, I know the old saying that dogs can easily be poisoned - but that's not necessarily accurate or easy as it may seem. It's like snake avoidance training. A person, bobcat, raccoon or coyote cannot get close without one group of animals triggering the others into alarm. I am also a big believer in strategically placed noise making booby traps using blank cartridges to go "bang." None of these will stop a determined attack - that's not the intent. The idea is let us know that someone is trying to sneak up on us, BEFORE they get to the house. Even in a suburban setting, a well trained pair of dogs will let you know that someone is approaching before they get there. Add some noisemaker booby traps and you have a chance to be on your feet before a door or window gets opened from the outside. Marc
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Post by Cwi555 on Feb 19, 2014 6:54:26 GMT -7
My hope for this thread is to generate a brainstorm of creative preparedness measures aimed at moderately long-term (also useful for short-term)bug-in situations...two weeks to two months, or more. Here's one to get the ball rolling: Under the topic of bug-in home security I've been thinking lately about how to creatively and effectively use a solar-powered electric fence charger. What do you think? How about shin-high electric fence wire under all the windows? Maybe the output of the electric fence charger attached to door knobs? Possibly vertical, wire-mesh panels, supported by fiberglass electric-fence posts between or behind shrub rows, energized by the fence charger? What are the pros and cons? Is it possible or impossible? Would it be effective, or not? What other ways can you think of to use a solar, electric fence charger? What other, creative and effective security ideas have you been brainstorming? What other thoughts have you had about any other kind of prepping for a moderately long-term bug-in situation? Based on the verbiage of your post, I assume you mean more than just a solar electric fence charger beyond using it as an example. As a brief foray into that example, the fence would be optional. There is a lot that can be done with that source of energy. However, whatever is done with it, should be matched with appropriate administrative controls to prevent it from harming those it's meant to protect. I stated as a source of energy deliberately. Any measure intended to depart any form of energy onto anyone or thing is using energy in one form or another. For example, gun combines several forms and sources into one. Mechanical to chemical to kinetics. On the table it is simply potential unused energy. Converting that in the wrong manner is what gets people of all ages shot accidentally. With that said, our energy is in the form of stored electricity. The example conversion is a fence. Dead is dead, be it from a bullet or electric shock. Once the energy source is established, it becomes a matter of devising the most efficient use of it for its intended purpose. Therein is where the creativity comes into play. To my mind, redundancy should be employed with other forms of energy. Stakes, pits, water, falling objects, etc, think medieval meets Tesla.
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Post by kutkota on Feb 19, 2014 9:37:21 GMT -7
I don't know enough about electricity and fences to add much to that discussion. I like the idea though. What "stuff" would be needed for something like that to work. Me being ignorant to all of this I would think off the top of my head,
a solar charging power unit A way to store the power, guessing batteries as well as all of the parts of the electric fence?
What else am I missing?
I am guessing it could be picked up fairly cheap but I don't know.
My initial though was about boredom. After the initial shock of, holy crap, this just got real, you would immediatly begin getting things in order. Food, water, security, defensive and offensive measures, sustainability, etc...
After a while my kids will become stir crazy. Too young to fully grasp what is going on and not old enough to help without direct supervision.
I got a late start to this thing called "surviving" so I am still currently in scramble mode, trying to acquire the things I need/want as well as figuring out what I want to do on an ongoing basis. BOL, vehicles, gardening etc.
If this happened today I would be woefully unprepared. %1000 better than most but everyone has short comings.
I think I would immediatly begin planting in the basement using the equipment I have set up, though I hold little hope of much at all from this and the previous years garden was bad.
Defense would be of great concern to me. 3 of the 8 neighbors within shooting distance live off the government so they would immediatly be needing/expecting a hand out. I would think the garden would be an immediate target after people realize what is going on. I really need to figure out this indoor growing stuff.
With just brute force we could control a large section of territory immediately surrounding the house day and night. Though it would quickly wear on everyone. Blocking the road heading to my house would be a nonissue but at what point is that a sign of prosperity?
Ok I am rambling and have add little but more questions.
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Post by angelhelp on Feb 19, 2014 10:23:43 GMT -7
Tractor Supply House has a bunch of goodies for electric fences.
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Post by tjwilhelm on Feb 19, 2014 11:04:27 GMT -7
Another aspect of moderately long-term bug-in (wild-hair brainstorming here) is disguise or camouflage of the bug-in location...sort of the "gray man" concept for the whole house. How could you make your home a bit more hidden and unobvious without obstructing your view of potential intruders? What can you do to make the home appear naturally dangerous (as in infectious disease present) without posting signs that will be interpretted as fake messages and end up inviting invaders?
Would it be good to leave trash in the yard? DON'T mow the lawn or shovel the walk! Inside, hide and disguise everything important! What else?
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Post by ColcordMama on Feb 19, 2014 11:51:51 GMT -7
How about using a heat source (flamethrower?) to make smoke stains on the outside of your house like they're coming out of the windows and doors, then putting plywood over the windows and stringing yellow police caution tape (or leaving it strewn) around the outside? Make sure those plywood sheets are bolted through to the inside, so someone on the outside couldn't remove them. That might fool outsiders enough to make them think the house was totally destroyed inside and not worth investigating/looting. Of course if you have neighbors they'd most likely know the place was okay, but it's worth a try. You could knock out a few knotholes in the plywood so you'd be able to have (limited) views, and if you knocked them out higher than normal head height, outsiders would find it difficult to look in. That's one good reason to get plywood with knots in it.
Another idea: if you want to grow food outside, plant unusual veggies hidden in landscaping so only the experienced gardener/looter would know what they were looking at. Like potatoes: who among us would recognize a potato plant and know to dig up the spuds under the ground? Swiss chard, ordinary variety not rainbow. You can harvest leaves and the plant quickly replaces them. One big plant will feed one person for an entire summer, year-round in fact in temperate zones (anything above zone 8, zone 7 with adequate freeze protection.) Rutabagas. Kale. Radishes, some common varieties mature in three weeks from planting and can be used as a cooked vegetable (very popular in Shakespeare's time.) Turnips and beets, both roots and greens valuable foods. You wouldn't want to plant corn or tomatoes or strawberries or onions or lettuces, because everybody would recognize those, but what about sweet potatoes? Who here would recognize a sweet potato vine? They're very easy to grow in warmer climes and could produce a lot of food. A LOT of food could be grown inconspicuously in landscaping and perimeter plantings, if you think about it. Looters aren't going to go around tasting strange leaves or digging around in unfamiliar flower beds looking for veggies, are they? But you can sneak out at night and harvest and water and fertilize at will. Just don't go weeding or the flower bed suddenly looks valuable, and who needs flowers during a crisis?
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Post by thywar on Feb 19, 2014 12:43:18 GMT -7
I don't need the flowers but the right kind can be edible too.. besides the flowers brighten up the house and makes everyone feel better.. just look in any hospital room.. lol.
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Post by Cwi555 on Feb 19, 2014 15:42:09 GMT -7
Another aspect of moderately long-term bug-in (wild-hair brainstorming here) is disguise or camouflage of the bug-in location...sort of the "gray man" concept for the whole house. How could you make your home a bit more hidden and unobvious without obstructing your view of potential intruders? What can you do to make the home appear naturally dangerous (as in infectious disease present) without posting signs that will be interpretted as fake messages and end up inviting invaders? Would it be good to leave trash in the yard? DON'T mow the lawn or shovel the walk! Inside, hide and disguise everything important! What else? In a way, we practice that now. If you were to look at a satellite view, or observe from a distance, neither this house, nor the farm would stand out as anything special, nor as a likely place to have much of any value. We take observational pictures of other houses/farms for the express purpose of monitoring general conditions in order to maintain similar conditions, and to know who is playing possum. We do not want to shine out at locations we may actually be at as anything out of the ordinary as judged by our surroundings can and will garner attention. Conversely, for those playing possum, they are likely either preppers, or raiders. If they go through the trouble of putting up a front, they are doing so for a reason. Knowledge ahead of time is critical to any valid threat analysis. This is something most do not understand. If your yard is neat and trim to the point it takes a machinist scale to determine grass blade length, or there isn't a leaf to be found in the fall, or other such sign, people will remember that. It is not just after the fact that people need to be worried about, as the most likely threat will come from within your own community in a rural setting, or city. People who live in the general area where you will be for bugging in will very likely know and recognize a front when they see one during any serious breakdown of society. When it comes down, standing out will be bad for your health. It is the same principle as wearing a tux to a 2.99 buffet arriving in a limo. Who is going to be keyed on should a stick up occur while at that buffet? The guy with the tux, or the farmer with slightly stained well worn overalls? That logic will apply to your home. The time to enact the gray man philosophy is now, not after the fact. As for hiding anything inside, it's near impossible to hide everything, and any hint of self defense, food etc, but it is possible to control what others observe. For this, the casual observer cannot be allowed to witness anything that would stand out in their memory. That gets to an important point for both inside and outside. What is the average attention span of people? If it will grab their attention right away, your opsec is already blown. For that, the average adult's acute attention span is 8 seconds. The overall average has dropped from 20 minutes down to 5 minutes over the last 10 years. It is that acute attention span that is the problem for opsec. If it grabs their attention in the first 8 seconds, it's going to keep it for at least 5 minutes. For that matter, some of the people who started reading this, may have not made it to this point. This can be controlled as well by using trojan horses. At one time that was literal for me. I had a model of a trojan horse center of the living room coffee table. We now have an indoors water fountain, with the remainder of the room being nondescript. Every room should have an 8 second trojan horse. Most people (not all, but most), are simply not very observant. Even though they see, they do not see, because the front track of their mind is focused for that first 5-20 minutes on the trojan horse. Next to that, you need a second attention grabber. As their eyes naturally roam the room, they will first note the trojan, but later, after they have left, their mind will likely remember the second item. By the time they sort it all out, it's not likely they will recall the third, fourth etc item. A trained observer is another story. They will catch on to this immediately, and for those people, you need to throw them a bone. A small not so obvious item stuck in a corner to make their mind ask what the h***? Speaking of attention spans, that's enough for now.
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Post by Cwi555 on Feb 19, 2014 15:45:14 GMT -7
Another idea: if you want to grow food outside, plant unusual veggies hidden in landscaping so only the experienced gardener/looter would know what they were looking at. I have in the past advise, and will again, study how it is marijuana growers do it. They have become experts at hiding large and small volumes of plants away from prying eyes.
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Post by marc on Feb 19, 2014 16:57:36 GMT -7
In all things SHTF, I am a huge believer in the gray man principle. But…… there is an inevitable collision between working toward self sufficiency and disappearing into the background. This is a very important topic that needs to be well thought out.
There are no “right answers” because of the variables involved with individual locations and circumstances. Are we talking 6 weeks or years? Are you living in a condo in Miami, a suburb, or a few acres in the sticks? From my perspective and planning principles:
Hiding your animals, crops, solar panels, firewood – not mention the smells, sounds and visibility of the daily general activity needed for successful living are almost impossible to hide in real life SHTF situations.
Sure, give me enough money and enough the acreage that goes with that - and I can get ‘er done! But, in the real world where I live:
Rule 1 If the life of you and your family is important to you, never, never forget where the back door is. Backup locations are planned for a reason. ALWAYS SPREAD the supplies, whether it’s beans, band-aids or bullets. Always, always avoid a single large cache because desperation will force you to stand and fight.
Rule 2 Never fool yourself into thinking that you can play “super fortress” and repel attackers. At some point, you ABSOLUTELY WILL be overcome by isolation or stealth or large numbers or heavy equipment. Count on it, and plan for it.
Rule 3 See rule 1
I would love to see this thread carried on with attention to: -You live on a rural farm -You live in the suburbs -You live in the city
The approaches are so different, but all of us could learn from the overlapping thoughts and experiences. Marc
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