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Post by Dennis on Jan 1, 2013 8:54:22 GMT -7
Will just thinking out loud here but if your thinking of leaving and it’s a local thing which wouldn’t be that bad for travel once your clear I think. I lived in Gulf Shores AL and understand the problems with storm evacuation. But if your prepared for it as I’m sure you are once you clear the area you will be fine.
If it’s a national problem it would have to be a long term event your thinking of because I assume you are prepared to stay where you are. I don’t think travel would be advisable.
So if there is no choice and it’s a national SHTF you decided to leave here are just a few things they may be a problem.
Road bandits.
Fuel.
Lodging or restaurants.
Roadblocks
Medical emergency assistance
Vehicle brake down assistance
And the list goes on.
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Post by WILL on Jan 1, 2013 9:33:56 GMT -7
Dennis, that's what I'm thinking. Am I the only one who’s considered riding in the bed of the truck with a gun handy to provide security while my wife drives?
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Post by thywar on Jan 1, 2013 10:04:12 GMT -7
Did you ever see the movie or read the book 'Shooter'.. and what happens to guys riding in the back of a truck.. at a distance greater than 300 yards? Then what do you do? Or I guess more importantly.. does your family do? There are so many ways to defeat a vehicle driving down the road especially with an untrained driver. I bet if you stopped and gave it a moment's thought, even as a policeman, you could come up with three in the first minute. That's to just disable the vehicle.. not even considering the ambush.
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Post by WILL on Jan 1, 2013 10:33:12 GMT -7
Did you ever see the movie or read the book 'Shooter'.. and what happens to guys riding in the back of a truck.. at a distance greater than 300 yards? Then what do you do? Or I guess more importantly.. does your family do? There are so many ways to defeat a vehicle driving down the road especially with an untrained driver. I bet if you stopped and gave it a moment's thought, even as a policeman, you could come up with three in the first minute. That's to just disable the vehicle.. not even considering the ambush. That's counterproductive. It's always easy to think of ways to derail an objective. I've framed up a problem that I'm thinking alot of people here may have. Solutions and positive contributions are a good thing.
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Post by missasip on Jan 1, 2013 10:34:00 GMT -7
Here’s what I’m thinking. Since I don’t have a quasi-remote, fully stocked, off-grid cabin, Plan A is bugging in. Plan B is bugging out to a relative’s home. Problem is, my relatives in Florida live in the same county as me. It’s very possible that the conditions that forced me to bug out will also be present at their homes. The closest relative outside my county is my sister in Indiana. What about friends you ask? Personally, I don’t have any that I would depend on in that type of situation. Bottom line, I would rather take a stab at Indiana if it’s at all attainable, than run off into the woods with no objective. If it came to that, I’m imagining we would try to drive there with as many supplies as we could bring. I can foresee all sorts of stuff going wrong though. So no one else is in this situation? Ok your thinking about Indiana. Is that a family thing? Your brith state? What makes Indiana the place? For me it's nothing but a process of elimination. Which you seem to have started. No long distance walking. No running off to the woods. No friends you consider trustworthy enough. Ever think instead of worrying about running for a thousand miles, running 250 miles or less, to get to your own BOL? Not sure if your in the panhandle or where of FL. I know there are lots of VERY rural towns, communities north of you, in GA, AL, MS. Land at the moment around here is pretty cheap. Just a thought. A couple of acres somewhere that you can work on for the given time, might be a place to go to if needed. Gives you time to look for somewhere that has water etc. Just a thought. I'm blessed with family spread about the country in 4 different places, that I can depend on, as they can on me. I actually am still "building" a BOT (trailer) just in case. Hope you come to a conclusion you can feel somewhat comfortable with. Jimmy
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Post by thywar on Jan 1, 2013 11:31:26 GMT -7
I agree a positive attitude is important.. but I just drove a little over 1100 miles straight through from FL to OK in a big SUV, comfortable, no pressure, no bad guys that I know of, stopped when I wanted, where I wanted and it took me a little over 17 hours. Now imagine doing that in the back of a pickup in a SHTF situation. I'm not saying you can't do it but I am saying you had to have thought of that and what the possibilities are.. because any good plan has to take into consideration the dangers and that the very best plan goes right out the window just as soon as it starts, typically. I'm not trying to tell you how to do it but the reality of trying to do it.
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Post by WILL on Jan 1, 2013 12:46:32 GMT -7
So let’s say you were in that situation. Bugging in isn’t an option and you must make a long distance trip to be safe. What would you do?
I'm thinking I have enough gas cans for 40 gallons of fuel and my truck holds 22. With heavy traffic, detours and carrying a heavy bug out load, I expect we would maybe make it about 600 miles with that. So clearly I need to get more gas cans. I guess the benefits of having a gun in the bed are debatable, but I feel they outweigh the liabilities in that situation. Shoot, I don't even know if a person could fit back there by the time you got the bicycles, food, gas, dogs, guns, ammo, etc into the bed. Anyhow, I’d love to hear others suggestions on how they would do it if they had to. Not some fantasy bug out in an armored duce-n-a half, but a realistic plan with what you have now or could reasonably be expected to get in the near future.
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Post by olebama on Jan 1, 2013 12:51:58 GMT -7
I have thought of this a little, but I do not have near the distance to get to relatives that Will does. I have about 250 miles. Much less to my BOL. I have wondered about these U-Store it places. I don't know how much they cost to rent. Maybe store some supplies (gas, etc.) about halfway? I seem to recall that they guy that tried to fake his own death in an airplane, had rented a storage locker that contained supplies close to were he bailed out. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4226561/Man-investigated-for-fraud-faked-death-in-plane-crash.htmlI wonder if these places can be accessed at all hours and without power?
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Post by mud on Jan 1, 2013 12:59:08 GMT -7
If for whatever reason you absolutely have to make the trip, the best solution I have is what my brother and I have been working on for the last year. Aside from fuel, set up your trip in stages only stopping where you can assume a reasonable amount of security and supplies. He has set up some cache just over the wood line in road side parks. They cannot, of course, provide fuel, but can hold long term food, ammo, survival gear and other supplies that you may not have been able to pick up passing through towns. Small storage units are another place you could hid stuff in plain sight. You may not be able to have fuel there but maybe fuel cans, siphons or even a spare vehicle. The problem always compounds the farther you have to travel but knowing where you are going and knowing the routes and alternative routes, could help in minimizing the potential for catastrophe.
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Post by Dennis on Jan 1, 2013 15:06:41 GMT -7
When I first read about the storage buildings I said what a great idea then I've been thinking how vulnerable they are if the hordes of zombies are on the loose. I really don't think anything will be safe if this nation goes into a SHTF scenario.
AS for fuel not sure if I would count on buying any so you may need an alternate plan to acquire fuel. The large bed mount fuel tanks can get you a long way down the road. I knew a fella who delivered RVs and he had one in the bed of his truck. Don't remember how far he could get but it was considerable.
Also I'd think about timing depended on the situation. Even in a SHTF scenario things should settle down after the initial shock. So maybe delaying the departure date would be beneficial.
Think I'd want a bed mounted M60 too. But that's just a dream.
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Post by swamprat1 on Jan 1, 2013 15:18:16 GMT -7
I would go with a bed mounted fuel container also. Other than that, keep a low profile. I would advise against sitting in the back of the truck with a gun. I've spent a number of hours in the back of a humvee with a mounted machine gun. Hitting a target in that situation is no easy task and you will be wasting valuable ammo. IMHO you're better off with everyone in the cab so you can put the hammer down without worrying about losing anyone.
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Post by 94atLarge on Jan 1, 2013 15:45:34 GMT -7
If it were me and that is the only option and this being an exercise of sorts, here is what I would do:
Since I already own an extended cab 3/4 ton diesel 4WD pick-up, I would add an auxiliary fuel tank. I can easily get a 100 gallon tank in the bed with room left over and it's a short bed. Buy a small enclosed utility trailer that can handle a couple 1000 lbs of cargo. I currently tow a 5th wheel trailer that weighs in at around 6k lbs and I am able to get around 12 mpg so I would use 12 as my average but expect I would get around 15 (1500+ mile range). Combined weight would be little better than half the truck's capability. Having been thru hurricane Floyd in '99 was a real eye opener when it came to fuel. Gasoline was not to be had within a couple of days, however diesel was never a problem, provided there was electricity. That is if I had to stop for fuel, which would not be planned but may be necessary if you have to deviate your route. A small hand operated pump with enough hose to make a withdrawal would be a good idea to have along. Diesel can also be stored longer without the added worry of going "bad" if I wanted to store a few drums on site and fuel up when ready to go.
My plan would be to get to my destination in one shot and as quickly as possible. A straight line is best but I would map out alternative routes, several of them, avoiding major cities and most towns. If you can get gone as the chaos just begins then there is a chance of success. Even the best laid plans for a catastrophe take time to implement and organize. Particularly if unexpected.
It's a logistical nightmare considering the distance you want to cover and the what-ifs are going to be never-ending. I am fortunate that my bug-out location is less than 15 miles away.
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Post by Cwi555 on Jan 1, 2013 20:09:28 GMT -7
So let’s say you were in that situation. Bugging in isn’t an option and you must make a long distance trip to be safe. What would you do? I'm thinking I have enough gas cans for 40 gallons of fuel and my truck holds 22. With heavy traffic, detours and carrying a heavy bug out load, I expect we would maybe make it about 600 miles with that. So clearly I need to get more gas cans. I guess the benefits of having a gun in the bed are debatable, but I feel they outweigh the liabilities in that situation. Shoot, I don't even know if a person could fit back there by the time you got the bicycles, food, gas, dogs, guns, ammo, etc into the bed. Anyhow, I’d love to hear others suggestions on how they would do it if they had to. Not some fantasy bug out in an armored duce-n-a half, but a realistic plan with what you have now or could reasonably be expected to get in the near future. I realize cost is an issue, but there are really only two semi-viable options for the direction you would have to go. Cross country on the road puts you in severe danger, the half track idea as you say is a fantasy as no such vehicle exist that can transverse all the varying terrain between your local and Indiana. 1000 miles by car on roads, or off road is not a viable option with the possible exception of the hybrid suggestion below. Outside of that, the trip will likely end badly if your trying it post event. Your best option would be to stage gear there now, and bug out fast when it looks like it's coming apart. The only semi-viable options I can see is a rail service truck, or a plane ( Cessna 172 for instance ). www.fasttrackrr.com/hyrailtrucks124/124.htmlA hyrailtruck is a normal pickup etc converted to serve as a utility truck for railways. This particular one is selling for 8,900. Thats less than the rail running gear sells for. We actually have some similar units and have two sub-contracts for various services to the railroad. (inspection and clearing) That is by no means an all inclusive map. It is very generalized not showing several thousand miles of secondary and tertiary maps. The idea is to use the rail to avoid the majority of the roads. In a national shutdown, the only thing that will be moving by rail is military shipments. They will be highly infrequent. You can also get off the rail in a hurry if you know how to use the gear. This can be in some very remote locations, or next to a gas station depending on the situation. Giving yourself the option of a portion of that travel by rail gives it some survivability. The market for these vehicles is highly limited. Most of the used ones are purchased and converted to farm trucks and welding rigs. The rail gear is intrusive in that it is welded to the truck, special wiring and hydraulics attached etc. They run just fine on the road, albeit with about 2,500 pounds of extra gear (which is nothing to the diesels they typically carry). However, most folks who buy one used, cut the gear off. www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-172RG-CUTLASS/1980-CESSNA-172RG-CUTLASS/1262975.htmThe average time to VFR single engine rating for the FAA is 80 hours. The average per hour is 100 so 8 grand from start to finish. <=50k start to finish. The Cessna used can be had for ~40 grand with a car gasoline conversion kit. Thats about the price of a new full sized truck. With that plane you would have to stage gear ahead of time. Those are the only cross country options that are at least semi viable that I can see.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 21:06:36 GMT -7
Something to consider. If you have a truck, of ANY kind, you can get a second tank installed with a switch inside for running either one, like a dual tank system you find on most dually trucks. Then a bed tank attached to the fuel system as well, should provide you with just about enough fuel to get you where you want to go. Granted it would cost you a pretty penny and a half to fill them all, if you only use a bit in each tank and rotate it on a regular use basis, you could gradually get them all filled and keep rotating the use to keep the fuel from going stale on you. I know a fella that put a bed tank in his truck bed and built a rather nice homemade camper topper (metal over 1" plywood with 2x4 frame) to cover it with, there is a small "window/door" that has a key lock that he opens for filling the tank. He carries tools and such in the bed, and keeps the topper locked. It has only a small window in the back door and a sliding window to match the truck window.
If you have a truck, maybe a combination of this adjusted to what you need would work?" It would give you a way to have the fuel on hand, a way to keep your stuff protected from the elements (human or weather) as well as having a place for the kids to stretch out and rest while you travel...and have someone hidden out of sight in the back could keep an eye out a tinted back window for trouble from behind.
I would strongly suggest you look over the state maps containing the counties you will be traveling through, as much trouble as it may sound like, I would suggest you contact each county assessors office and request a county map for each area you will be passing through. This way you can look at state roads, county roads, gravel roads, etc so you can figure alternate routes for getting through areas, IE: going around big cities, avoiding highways and interstates, etc. You would also get a good idea of waterways to cross, bridges, bottle necks, dead ends, population areas, etc. That's a long ways to go...the more alternate routes you have to take advantage of, the better your chances of getting there will be. Mark them on a map as well as writing them down, road numbers, miles and turns, etc.
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Post by mud on Jan 2, 2013 3:23:21 GMT -7
in a SHTF situation that he felt the need to bug out wouldn't many of those dirt roads be patrolled or blocked by bubba brigades?
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